S1413: Staying lean and agile whilst achieving world-leading growth, with Toms Jurjevs (CEO, Sun Finance)

An episode of The Impact Multiplier CEO Podcast

S1413: Staying lean and agile whilst achieving world-leading growth, with Toms Jurjevs (CEO, Sun Finance)

How can you keep lean and efficient despite hyper growth?

Welcome to The Impact Multiplier CEO, helping you to 10X your financials, 10X your positive impact and 10X the fun you have along the way! Today Richard Medcalf is speaking with Toms Jurjevs, Founder and CEO of Sun Finance, a 1200-person strong business that was recently recognised as the No.1 fastest-growing fintech in Europe by The Financial Times.

Toms shares the story of Sun Finance's incredible growth, expanding into 12 international markets and delivering billions in loans.

In this conversation, you’ll learn:

  • How Toms minimises bureaucracy and keeps the business agile.
  • The three interrelated elements that Tom keeps a permanent focus on, in order to manage hyper growth without bloat.
  • The "Eagle Strategy" for avoiding micromanagement whilst staying on top of the details.
  • How Toms expanded to 12 International Markets.

Resources/sources mentioned:

Join Rivendell (https://xquadrant.com/rivendell/), our exponential programme for elite CEOs dedicated to transforming themselves, their businesses, and the world.

Ready for a big leap forward in your own leadership? Elevate your leadership forever with Richard's book "Making time for Strategy: How to be less busy and more successful". Buy your book here: https://xquadrant.com/time/

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Transcript

Richard Medcalf
How can you keep lean and efficient as a business despite having hypergrowth, in fact one of the highest growth levels in the entire world? Well today we're going to explore that. I'm speaking with Tom Zdurjsev, who is the CEO and founder of Sun Finance, which has grown in just a few years to over a 1000 people. They've been recognized as the number one fastest growing firm in Europe, in Fintech, by the Financial Times. And Tom shares Sun Finance's incredible story and he really focuses on the 3 key elements that he's always had a laser focus on in order to stop the company getting bloated and bureaucratic and inefficient as the company goes through growth after growth in that period, expands into, many different markets and delivering 1,000,000,000 in loans. So I really enjoy this conversation. I think Thomas gives a brilliant insight into what it means to keep lean and mean and create incredible results. Enjoy this conversation with Tom's Yoav. Welcome to the Impact Multiplier CEO podcast.

I'm Richard Medcalfe, founder of XQuadrant, and my mission is to help the world's top CEOs and entrepreneurs shift from incremental to exponential progress and create a huge positive impact on our world. Now that requires you to reinvent yourself and transform your business. So if you're ready to play a bigger game than ever before, I invite you to join us and become an Impact Multiplier CEO. Thomas, hi, and welcome to the show.

Toms Jurjevs
Hi, Richard. Thank you very much for having me.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. It's a pleasure. You're very welcome. What's gonna be fun today is to look at your story of really incredible growth. I know you set up some finance, I think, about 7 years ago. And over that time, you've expanded into, I think, 12 different international markets. You've grown to over, I think, 1,200 employees. You've delivered, $3,000,000,000 or probably more in loans over that period.

And so you and you your company has received the award from the Financial Times of being one of the fastest growing companies in Europe and probably the fastest growing Fintech company, I think, in Europe. So, amazing track record and love to understand a little bit about, how you facilitated that growth so fast and and what was the journey along the way. So my opening question, though, is just to go take us back. What led you to found found the company in the first place? What was going on 7 years ago where you decided to throw yourself into this new venture?

Toms Jurjevs
So well, for all my, I would say for all my career, I could be in fintech, industry. Right? And I was, I was, hired, for a different fintech do in the same field, many years ago, and and that was my first, and I would say only, employ employer, before I started some pilots. Right? So more or less, that's the only thing I know how to do in my professional career. And, that was a very good, I would say, experience for 8 years in that company. I took many senior roles, but, but at the same time, I wasn't one of the shareholders, and I always wanted to be and sit by the shareholder table. Right? And, still being quite young, I decided that this is the, I would say, this, now or never moment in my life that before turning 30, I need to decide what's how I see my career, my professional career going forward. And do I see myself in senior positions but still in management for the next 10 years? Or do I want to start something at least that's partially mine? Right? So I I made this decision, this this hard decision to leave, to leave a very good, well paid job with, I would say, very, job with with many perks, and then the one that I have been there for for many, many years. And I I know all the people.

I hired them myself, etcetera, etcetera, to leave that and to make my my my own company. Right? To find to found my own company, Sun Finance. And this is basically how Sun Finance was born. I I founded it together with my partner, in, in early 2017. And, yeah, we started everything from 0. We started, basically, just the 2 of us by fixing our own IKEA chairs and tables and, and and, doing everything from scratch, basically. Right? And one more time. Because this previous company that I was employer in employee in, I was one of the early employees in the company.

Right? So it was it was, also, an experience of taking something, almost from 0 to to a hero in a sense. Right? Like, this company was doing very good. And, when I left and and and now it was, time to do it all over again.

Richard Medcalf
Got it. Got it. And and what and why so it was really a question of yeah, you saw yourself as a business owner rather than employee, and and you stayed within the sector that you knew is really what I'm picking up here.

Toms Jurjevs
Yeah. Yeah. 100%. So so definitely a sector that I knew. I also was more local in local management. Right? I was I was the head of the Latin operations, but also, partially managing some other countries, in the previous company, and I wanted to I wanted to feel more, I would say, experience more global business. Right? And I wanted to to to work in some regions where I was not allowed to do that in my previous company. Yeah.

And now, basically, I have I have been working we have been working in Africa. It's like Latin America, in in Asia, in Europe, so all over the place.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Amazing. So so let's go into this story a little bit. Obviously, it's a huge deal to be able to be on the Financial Times list of the fastest growing companies in Europe. Right? It's it doesn't happen by kind of yeah. To most companies. So, let's just get back to kind of some of those the success factors. What do you think looking back led to you being one of those fastest growing companies? What did you do right Mhmm.

That other companies didn't focus on as much?

Toms Jurjevs
I mean, it's, we didn't invent a new wheel. Right? So it's, it's it's just doing there are many companies like ours, and many companies doing more or less the same the same business, right, in our sector. And, actually, for all sectors, there are many companies doing the same the same stuff. Right? So that's it's very hard to be super differentiated, because in our global economy, you always find if you are successful enough, you will have copycats and you will have competition coming, faster than you realize. Right? So the same for us, we were not doing anything, extraordinary. We just feel that we were doing things maybe a bit better, a bit more efficient than than, our competitors. Right? And we were we were, maybe, looking at how we spend our money a bit closer than our competition because we were boost starting initially. Right? And it was our money that we invested.

And it's when it's your money, 100%, then you always look, and you always are more motivated to to spend the money as effective as possible. Right? And we have tried tried to keep this mindset from day 0, up to now. Right? It's it's every euro counts and every cent counts that you spend. Right? So you don't spend your money left and right. And it doesn't matter whether you are just a start up with with with couple of tens of €1,000 in your bank account or you are a you are a €200,000,000, revenue company. Right? It's always, the mindset should be the same. And it's and it's always goes back to my principles is that you you have to be out of your comfort zone and and you and don't let bureaucracy into your company. Right? Because bureaucracy is exactly one thing that that makes, I would say, makes good companies become bad companies and slowly die.

It's because then you get so slow and so, you're you're not anymore, I would say, agile to to chain to changes in the environment where you operate. Right? And so we have tried to kept it to minimum, and and I think that's all of these small things combined has been has has led to to to the success that we had compared to some of our competitors.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. That's great. So tell me a bit about the this every euro counts model. How have you managed, like, con tactically? Like, how do you do that? Because, obviously, on one level, everyone's gonna say, yeah. We need to watch the watch the money. So, you know, like, what have you done, like, to instill that mentality, you know, in the culture or in the processes? You know? And and have you done have you tried some things which didn't work to to support you as well? That'd be really fascinating.

Toms Jurjevs
Here, I think we're not always, me and my partner, we're not always the best lead by example guys. Right? But, but here, definitely, we are the best lead by example guys. And here, I think it counts. It's just, from from from very beginning, it's, we don't spend money on shit that we don't need in the company. Right? So we don't, we don't buy fancy cars on company money. We don't do fancy offices. We don't take fancy, consultants, too many, unless we really need them. Right? We don't we don't do many many things where the money we don't do too much of, business travel because you can do most of the things via Zoom, right, nowadays.

So it's it's many, and we always, we always grill our vendors, our partners, on on the prices that they give us, and we always try to get some discounts. And if we get larger as a client, we always say that since we are larger as a client, we should get some, some bulk discounts or some some size discounts, etcetera, etcetera. Right? So it's I would say it's more, alright, all over the place, where we're trying to save money. And, and even though we have had, for example, experiences where we just figure, okay, this will be a cost saving month. Right? And everyone across the board needs to find at least couple of percentage points to save. And then people are a bit in shock, and they're saying, but we are growing month on month. Right? So our revenue is increasing. Our sales are growing.

Why why are we cost saving? But it's because to keep the mindset alive. Otherwise, it's super easy to to blow up your expenses. Right? And it's always hard to decrease your expenses because your revenue and your your your incoming cash can decrease instantly. Right? If something changes, COVID or the war in Ukraine affected some of our countries. Right? Or some regulation changes or something else, your your income or your revenue stream can decrease dramatically in matter of, I would say, even days. Right? But then your costs, if they're so high, it's hard to decrease them. So it's always it's always important to keep your costs as low as possible. It doesn't matter whether it's, good times or bad times.

Right? And then if it's good times, then you make more money. If it's bad times, then at least you're not you're not loss making or or, and or and then you are much more lean in order to exchange and adapt a new environment as it was the COVID case. Right? Because in COVID, everything changed in matter of, I would say, hours even, right, in some countries where based on COVID, new regulation was was implemented, and then you needed to adapt as soon as possible. Otherwise, you would go out of business. Right? And those companies that that had huge cost basis, huge unnecessary cost basis, they it was hard for them to change because they needed to somehow sustain, somehow finance those costs. But for us, it was quite easy because our cost base always has been as low as possible.

Richard Medcalf
I hope you're enjoying this conversation. This is just a quick interlude to remind you that my book, Making Time For Strategy, is now available. If you wanna be less busy and more successful, I highly recommend that you check it out. Why not head over to making time for strategy.com to find out the details? Now back to the conversation. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great point. And have you found you've ever taken that too far? Like, sometimes you feel you've cut too much back, for example?

Toms Jurjevs
I don't think it's, I don't think it's possible to catch too much back. Right? It's like if you try to be fit as a person. Right? It's, of course, you need to eat. Otherwise, that would be an unhealthy, and maybe that's maybe where you can cut too much back. But in the end of the day, if you're eating healthy and and you're keeping your your your sugars to a minimum, right, then you will be in a top shape. And and, of course, we are I would say we still like to have fun here, right, at Sun Finance. It's not that we are not that we are kinda a company that that doesn't allow any perks to our to our employees, right, and our colleagues. No.

Definitely not the case. We still we still we live we live by, I would say, by a, I would say, calling in a sense work hard, a party hard as well. Right? And it's and and we embody that we have Christmas parties, and those are usually huge, and we have, the best Latvian musicians coming in. We have the bar and the and the food and everything, and we party until the until the sun sets up, right, or or comes up. And then we have, we just last week, we had those sport games that all of the HQ people, we come together. We have we have competition in different sports, and then after that, we have a party. Right? And, also, always usually goes to the middle of the night. And then we have smaller events, so it's we you need to in our environment, right, you need to keep people motivated, and it's not only about the money and the salary to pay them.

Right? They need to be they need to feel as a part of the company. They need to feel feel as part of something bigger that's in finance. Right? So we do that, but another set so it's not about just saving money everywhere where you can. It's about not spending on the crap that you do not need. Right? And and those parties and sometimes having good time, you do need that. Right? But you don't need it. But you don't need many other stuff that our companies are are are spending money on.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Makes yeah. Makes sense. So because there's always the investments, in the future.

Toms Jurjevs
Definitely. You never

Richard Medcalf
have to make you don't have to make them, but if you do make them, it's gonna be an accelerator. And probably even those parties are in a sense are investing in, you know, the future, right, and the morale and the engagement and the dynamic of a team.

Toms Jurjevs
Yeah.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Great. So, you talked about minimum bureaucracy as well. You said one of the things you think you did really well was to keep the bureaucracy down. Yeah. Well, how do you do it? Like, or if you're advising somebody else to do it, where would you be asking them to look? Like, what would be your mental model of, okay, we need to kind of eliminate bureaucracy that's creepy. That's

Toms Jurjevs
I mean, it's like, in my mind that I have been discussing these ideas for for several years now, it's, I think these three major things that kinda sets us a bit apart are are, I would say they go hand in hand. Right? So we have the bureaucracy, we have the comfort zone, and we have, we have kinda saving, or not not spending money on on on credit you do not need. Right? And and I would say those are kinda 3 siblings that that go together. And, because usually or or I would say three diseases that go together. Right? Because when you get one, then you get the other one and the other one. It's like if you have if you have your nose, clogged up, then you usually have, also also some cough. Right? And then maybe sometimes you also have a temperature or something. Right? It's the same same thing here, because if you if you let's talk about a bit about the comfort zone.

So when your business is doing okay and you're doing good and and you have some you get some, some some, like, financial times or something. You get some awards and and and and your investors are happy, yeah, that you are kinda your revenue is growing, your profitability is very good, etcetera, etcetera. It's very easy to say that you're the smartest person in the room or in the or or or in the in the industry. Right? And then you get in the comfort zone. And then if if you're in the comfort zone, you will let your guards down, and you can start spending money yourself or your middle management, or you don't just look at their their, I would say, their finger fingertips that match. Right? And and people there also feel in comfort zone, and they start spending money left and right. Right? And then when that happens, bureaucracy is the next step. Right? Or it goes, I would say, hand in hand because when you get larger, you get more profitable, larger revenue, more more countries, etcetera, etcetera.

It's very easy to let bureaucracy in the door because you need more middle management. And then they middle management, they want to have their own teams. Right? And their teams want to have their own teams. So it's more about spreading and spreading and spreading. And then in the end of the day, it's like the manager or manager or manager or manager, right, and and 2 people, teams, etcetera, etcetera. And this and and then and you you you blink, and then you open your eyes, and you see that it's already there. It's super hard to get rid of the bureaucracy. Right? And, and bureaucracy is not only about the number of people and the number of, I would say, number of managers that you have, but it's also about everything.

It's it's a mindset. Right? It's a mindset problem. It's it's and in my opinion, kind of bureaucracy is is a is a sort of a curse word. Right? Because it's, how I see bureaucracy or how I translate it, it's it's I better not do I better don't do anything because by doing something, I may get a wrong decision made. But if I don't make any decision, then nobody can blame me for not making any decision. Right? So that's that's in my dictionary, or my own opinion of bureaucracy. Right? So, I mean, bureaucracy for other people are maybe something different. But for me, this is a curse word because this is how I translate it.

Right? So I better do nothing than I do something because if by doing something, I may get it wrong. And if I get it wrong, I I will get punished. But if I get it right, I will I won't get much benefit out of that. Right? So I better kinda make it easy. I and live my life and get my salary and go home at 5 o'clock. Right? So that's definitely something that we hear some finance try not to, not to do. And, of course, at some by growing big, you need a little bit of more management and at some minor bureaucracy you need. Right? Because you need checks and balances in and you need you need to have some rules and regulations, and that's all fine.

Right? But just don't make it I would say, don't, don't if it's a it's it's it's like it's like with everything in your life. Right? If you drink a bit, it's it's fine. Right? Because having a good glass of wine in the evening, it's it's it's perfect. But if you start drinking left or right from morning to the evening, then it's it's not good. Right? And but here, it's I think bureaucracy is something similar.

Richard Medcalf
So how in your business have you kind of kept reducing bureaucracy, you know, stopping it from kinda growing? As you said, it's a natural thing often because it grows. How have you kind of you know, where do you kinda go? Woah. Woah. Woah. You know? Here, we're building some bureaucracy. We gotta stop it. How how do you actually go about doing that practically?

Toms Jurjevs
No. Like I say, first of all, it's, we try to keep the company as lean as possible. Right? So it's, we try to keep all the management people as involved in the actual business as possible. Possible. Right? So, I think myself, I'm also quite involved. I I I have, I I meet, country heads on monthly basis. If there's something, happening in the country, I I we have we have calls there, faster. Right? We're not waiting for that monthly meeting to to have those discussions.

Right? So we we can, we can discuss everything via WhatsApp, for example. That's my favorite tool of discussing or calling or chatting. Right? I hate emails, for example. I and I try to I know that it's hard for people to, how to say, to to change their mindset not to use emails completely. Right? And sometimes they're a bit necessary, but in general, I don't use emails at all in my office. Never. Like, people know that if they send me an email, they won't get any response. If they want to reach me, either come to come to me face to face, that's preferably.

If we're not in the same building or the same country, call me. If I don't answer, text me in WhatsApp, and I will respond as soon as possible. Right? So that's just one small example of of of having this bureaucracy out of the door because I remember in my previous company, this email endless email chains. Right? When you write in the super long email, that took you 45 minutes to write, and then you send it to 10 people. Right? And then maybe one of them reads it. And and you think since you wrote this email, then your job is done. Right? And then they reply back, but, actually, this person that is replying to you is sitting in the next door. Right? And you can discuss all of this in 5 minutes, but then it takes you maybe 3 days to have this this this stupid discussion via email.

Alright? So all those small things, those are brokers. Yeah. And I'm, and for me, it's important that my people are keeping this to minimum in contact with me, but also in contact with each other. Right? So that they save their time. And for me, it's very important that that my closest people also are as as much as in the business as possible. Right? So they're they're not just kinda high level high level managers, similar people, right, that are not actually in the trenches. I I I always ask of them to to be as much in the business as possible to know everything in the details. Right? And I also from day 1, I have talked about saving money, about keeping bureaucracy out of the door, and about not having comfort zone.

Right? And when you repeat this time and time again, I would say for in every management call, in every every Christmas party, when I say something with the microphone, everything, I always start with with the key bureaucracy to a minimum and stay out of comfort zone. Right? So and then people start slowly putting it together and putting it to a some finance culture, I would say.

Richard Medcalf
I hope you're enjoying this conversation. This is just a quick interlude to introduce you to 2 transformative programs that we run. The first is Rivendell, my exclusive group of top CEOs who are committed to transforming themselves, their businesses, and the world. It's an incredible peer group and a deep coaching experience that will push you to new heights no matter how successful you've already been. The second is Impact Accelerator, a coaching program for executives who are ready to make a big leap forward in their own leadership. It's regularly described as life changing, and no other program provides such personal strategic clarity, a measurable shift in stakeholder perceptions, and a world class leadership development environment. Find out about both of these programs at xquadrant.com/services. Now back to the conversation.

Nice. And talking about the comfort zone, that's an interesting area. So how do you kinda help people know when they're in their comfort zone? Or, I mean, I guess you what you sounds like you're trying to give people permission to feel a bit edgy. Right? To feel a bit uncertain. Is that is that how you do it?

Toms Jurjevs
Well, it's it's I would say no. It's more about even if everything is is is okay and even if you are if you are I would say, it's more about when when things are not happening as they should, then then you don't need to keep yourself out of comfort zone. Right? Because then the comfort zone is, is, you are by default out of the comfort zone. Right?

Richard Medcalf
Right.

Toms Jurjevs
But if but the problem starts when when things are are happening as you expect or things are going, via the plan, right, in time and month on month on month. Right? So then for me, the most important thing is to say that, okay. So we we made the 10% 10% jump in the last quarter in sales. Right? So okay. That's fine. But maybe we can do 20% jump in the next quarter. Right? Or or, or we save 5% on something. Right? Maybe we can save extra 7% in the next quarter.

So it's about not doing just good and growing, but it's about doing the best you can and growing the best or as much as possible, right, on quarter on quarter on quarter. That's, for me, this staying out of the comfort zone. Right? Because it's it's very easy to show in general growth in business, especially if you are quite young. Right? But it's and and and sometimes if you're a bureaucracy driven company, as you maybe know, it's important for not to grow too fast for those companies. Right? Because if you grow in one in 1 quarter for 30% or 1 year, the the shareholders and the stakeholders will will expect that you do this the same or more next year. Right? So sometimes companies are actually slowing down the growth in order for show that the next period, they can also continue the growth or increase the rate of the growth. Right? But that's, for me, a a stupid decision. Right? For me, it's grow as much as you can in the time period when you can do it because you never know what happens tomorrow, right, or or what what changes that you are not able to grow anymore or or that you actually vice versa need to close something down.

Right? But for the I would say for the inmate lately, comfort zone is, is is is is not as, I would say before COVID, there is more, more, I would say, active discussion here at Sun Finance because it was just growth, growth, growth, and and it's it was about, guys, let's continue let's continue focusing ourselves into into continue growth at the same rate or higher. Right? But since COVID hit and after that, the war in Ukraine broke out, So it's the comfort zone is not anymore on our agenda because there are many external factors that are that are taking comfort zone out of the discussions.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. So what I'm really hearing is when things are going well, look at how you can double down on that success.

Toms Jurjevs
Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. And and do it as fast as possible while you stick still can, basically.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. So, Thomas, this is, you know, early interesting conversation. I love this philosophy that you have around kind of these three areas of, you know, managing bureaucracy, managing cash, you know, and actually pushing yourself out of the comfort zone, as you do that. And the way that those linked together, it's really, really clear. Let me ask one of my favorite questions, though. How do you see the impact of Sun Finance multiplying over the next few years? You know, what would you love you know, in the next 3 or 4 years, what would be amazing for you as you look back at where the business could get to?

Toms Jurjevs
I would say it's a very good question because, honestly so now our business is built on on on on a couple of factors. Right? So we we, it's it's we call it the matrix growth structure. Right? So we grow via via increasing number of countries where we operate and and also by increasing the products and the business in every single country where we operate. Right? And we try to do it parallel, to so we have couple of different products in our under our, in our portfolio that we offer for our customers in different countries, but also we are constantly looking at new countries to launch, that are, at the moment, I would say, underbanked or where the competition is doing decent, etcetera, etcetera. Right? So I would say in 3 in in this medium, 3 to 5 year term, it's important for us to continue expanding, geographically, but also think of still additional products that we can offer to our existing customer base because that's very important because those customers are the ones that are already using your products, and then you have some trust made, established between some finance and those customers. So we can definitely upsell some more some other products to those customers. Right? But in the end of the day, it's it's it's it's about that and and then, hopefully, continue being successful, right, and and being profitable and giving a very good customer service to our customers and also a very good being a very good employer to our employees. Right? And and and giving everything that they want and, and I would say allowing them to continue spend their valuable time in some finance.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Thank you. So then the question is and my funny my favorite question is, how do you need to change as a leader? How do you need to evolve to make that happen? Because, you know, what gets us here to a certain level generally doesn't get us necessarily to the next kind of 10 x threshold. So where do you see your your edge, your development? You know, what's gonna be a challenge and a stretch for you?

Toms Jurjevs
I mean, I think at the moment, SunFinance is quite big at the moment. Right? So I think we did 200 and something 50 +1000000 euro revenue last year. And then the year before that, we did around 200,000,000, and this year, we'll do something in between. So we are not in a startup phase anymore only for many years. Right? And and, it's more, let's say, I would say, corporation phase that we are having. But but here, we come back to the question about the comfort zone and about the brokers. Right? And, of course, I need I but I think I have changed and and evolved a lot from day 0 when when some finance started. Right? Because in at that time, of course, I didn't have this, this, global experience.

Right? It was a very new playing field for me and many things we tried and some things we failed, but, many things we succeeded. So it's, of course, today, my daily routine, I think it's, much different than it was, in the 1st years, but it was more about doing everything yourself and and and, and etcetera etcetera. Now it's more about motivating the closest team that they have, the the the c level people. The those people have been with the company basically from very, beginning, so I really appreciate that. And I think it's part part to do with with the way how we motivate each other in the team. It's it's, I would say, senior team of around 20 people that has been in in in some finance from from year 1 or year 2, right, and hasn't changed much. So we do appreciate that, and I think that that shows that we are doing something correct here in some finance since, since the the core team, in the company has not changed. Right? And, yeah, for me, I I I call it at the moment, I call it the the ego view, how I manage, the business here.

Right? What does it mean? It means that when things are good, then I can just fly as an ego above everything and then basically just look at the numbers and and actually have more free time and, and not do much, much, work. Right? And then, but as you know, as an eagle, when he hunts, he goes down like this, and then he goes into into the water or somewhere, and he goes specifically in that one spot, basically. Right? So the same here in SunFinance. When, when shit hits the fan and and there's something that that needs to be done, right, some external or internal factors and something is is wrong, then then I can I can put myself all, on the line for to resolve that one particular problem? Right? And and and I hope perfect scenario is that there's always I'm just always flying like this, and and I don't need to do anything. Okay? That means that the company is doing really great, and there are no internal or external problem factors, but never happens. So, I think it's quite often that you need to go, in the trenches and and and figure things stuff out.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful analogy. I love the analogy. That idea of, yeah, staying high and then also really going into details on very specific issues when needed, rather than what a lot of people do actually, which is kind of quite a meddle with lots of parts of the business without actually, you know, knowing all about it at the time. So it's a great it's a great analogy. Thank you for sharing. So, hey, Thomas.

It's been a great conversation. I've really enjoyed, learning about this 3 part model that we you've talked about, managing costs, managing bureaucracy, and, managing your own sense of comfort. And then, yeah, talking a little bit about, well, the Eagle the Eagle, view, which I think is a great analogy to wrap this up on. So thank you for this. If people wanna find out more about you or about Sun Finance, you know, where should they go to do that?

Toms Jurjevs
I mean, it's our our website, Sun Finance dot Group, right, or LinkedIn, and then you can definitely reach out if you want to talk to me. LinkedIn is always an option. Right? And I always reply to everyone. So so go ahead. If you if you have any questions, interests, discussions, opinions, you don't agree with something, you you agree with something, then it's always we're always happy to to have these discussions.

Richard Medcalf
So thanks again, Thomas, for everything you've been sharing today, and look forward to, continuing along and following along on your journey.

Toms Jurjevs
Thank you very much. Thank you.

Richard Medcalf
Bye bye. Well, that's a wrap. If you received value from this conversation, please do leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. We'd deeply appreciate it. And if you'd like to check out the show notes from this episode, head to xpondrant.com/podcast, where you'll find all the details. Now finally, when you're in top leadership, who supports and challenges you at a deep level to help you multiply your impact? Impact. Discover more about the different ways we can support you at xquadrant.com.

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