How can you avoid the common mistakes CEOs make as they scale from £0M to £15M?
Today we find out. Richard speaks to Peter Busby, founder of professional services company Grayce that he scaled scaled to £15M in 7 years with 240 people. Peter shares his insights on building a successful business. We’ll explore everything from the lean startup approach and scaling challenges to maintaining growth and the critical need for self-awareness as a leader. We'll also delve into the collaborative mindset that fueled Grace’s success and the pragmatic approach Peter took in hiring, often trusting gut instincts over polished interviews.
In this conversation, you’ll learn:
- The specific mindset you need for success as a founder.
- The two foundational elements - often skipped over - that are key to building a successful business.
- The different phases of business growth, how to succeed and what to avoid at each stage.
- Recruitment during scaling.
- Leadership changes during steady growth phases.
- Importance of mentors and support systems.
- Overcoming self-doubt and comfort zones.
- Thinking big and recognizing growth opportunities.
Resources/sources mentioned:
- LinkedIn: Peter Busby
- Website: Grayce
- The Impact Multiplier CEO Podcast
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Richard Medcalf
What are the most common mistakes that you can make as a CEO as you scale from 0 to the first £15,000,000 or, $20,000,000 or even beyond? Today, I speak with Peter Busby, who is the founder of a professional services company called Grace, which he scaled, to exactly that level in under 7 years and building around 240 people along the way. And Peter really shares in a very clear way his insights on building a successful business at each stage of the process and in a no nonsense way tells you what works and what to look out for, what the risks are. And as well looks at the mindset you need as an entrepreneur. So this is a great business 101 with a lot of hard won, expertise and insights from Peter. So enjoy this conversation with Peter Busby. Welcome to the Impact Multiplier CEO podcast. I’m Richard Metcalfe, founder of XQuadrant, and my mission is to help the world’s top CEOs and entrepreneurs shift from incremental to exponential progress and create a huge positive impact on our world. Now that requires you to reinvent yourself and transform your business.
So if you’re ready to play a bigger game than ever before, I invite you to join us and become an Impact Multiplier CEO. Hi, Peter, and welcome to the show. So what I know about you, Peter, is that you have, you founded a professional services company called Grace at 0 revenues. You grew it over about 7 years to a business with about, 240 people and about £15,000,000, whatever that is in dollars, $30,000,000 or whatever, in in revenues. And so you’ve really been through all of those phases of really getting a a successful business off the ground that I know now you’re in more of an exec a non executive capacity perhaps in in that business. So I think it’ll be interesting today just to kinda look back, and now you I think you’ve been out of the business a few years, just to look back with the benefit of hindsight and the benefit of perhaps a bit of distance, and look at what were those key phases as you built the business. And what were some of the things where you got it wrong? What are some of the things that you got right? And so kinda use this as a way of really, yeah, sharing perhaps those different phases from 0 to 15,000,000, 20,000,000, whatever beyond. What is, like, the playbook for, for a founder? So, where should we where should we start? Where should we start with the inception? Like, why was why did you create this business? You know, what did you see, and what was important in those early years?
Peter Busby
So I probably just to just to augment what you just said. So it wasn’t my first business. I’ve had a a management consultancy business previously that I’d set up with some, colleagues in the late nineties, and we’d, sold that business on in the sort of about 2,007, 2008. And, that had been an interesting journey, probably where, you know, I learned a huge amount. It was the first time I’d ever, run a business or been involved in a smaller business. So, you know, it’s that to say that, you know, I made a huge amount of mistakes. And, and while we achieved success, probably made it harder for ourselves than we needed to. So after bit of a break and and some nonexec roles, in the mid sort of 22,011 sort of period, I was sort of eager to sort of, I suppose, capitalize on that learning and perhaps do a better job, of creating a a successful business and applying the lessons that that have been learned.
And and as you say, you know, the you know, a business comes in a number of phases, and, you know, you’ve got the right mindset to kick off with. Any founder of a business has got to have the right mindset, and, you’ve got to, you know, think big. You’ve got an appetite for risk. You’ve got to be prepared to do what’s necessary. And I I probably proved to myself that I could do that in the in the first phase in the first business. But I think the second time around, I was keen to sort of, create something that was more differentiated, had a clearer market opportunity rather than something that, you know, in a in a consultancy business, very often, it’s much harder to create that differentiation because everybody thinks they’re doing a great job, for their clients. So that creating that differentiation, something that had a large addressable market, a product that, had limited competition, you know, a potentially significant customer base. So with that background, you know, I I you’ve evaluated a number of ideas, you know, took some external input, and eventually, you know, inspired actually by, someone who I’d hired to sort of provide some of that input, I delighted upon the the model that, you know, you know, we we eventually call growth, but was essentially, creating a population of talent graduate, you know, high quality graduate pool that could be deployed into large corporates to help them reduce their bill, for for for change and transformation, but also to perhaps give them a talent pipeline 18 months, 2 down years down the road down the road that would that would solve some of the problems that are were around the change and transformation market at that time when there there was, you know, an aging workforce graduate schemes, if where there were any, I think you can sort through the big recession of the 2 things.
And, so we identified, you know, and and created a concept, I suppose, that that felt exiting and and perhaps novel. And, there were 1 or 2 other players in the east, but but very few and certainly not in the specific nature of change and transformation that we were focused on.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Got it. So what I’m hearing so first of all, thank you for giving us the extra background that, yeah, this was not your first rodeo. Right? You’ve done this before. So we’re able to get the experiences of what worked and didn’t work perhaps the first time around as well as as well as the second time. But what I’m really interested is, yeah, you said I wanna create a differentiated offer, and you you managed to do it within the realm of professional services. Right? Which, again, the first feeling often is is gonna be, you know, a little bit me too, you know, another consulting company you just said. But you identified actually that it was in how you built talent.
Right? That was, like, gonna be as I understand it, that was your kind of secret sauce was we’re gonna build a machine to take fresh graduates and turn them into useful human beings or words to that effect.
Peter Busby
The background, so the background, sorry, was that I was, went into Anderson Consulting in in the sort of mid nineties as an experienced hire. Not that experienced, but someone with 2 or 3 years experience. You know, you go on to a project and and 60, 70% of the take office would almost have landed as graduates. Now for clients, that wasn’t necessarily a great value deal because they were paying very high rates for these people who were quite green. But the quality of people was phenomenal. So it sort of opened my eyes to what could be delivered by, you know, really bright, smart people who were highly motivated and which was the the culture in the organization. I mean, the the hours that that got worked, you know, would probably shock people today, coming into the workforce. But, and then in the first business, we we create a graduate scheme, again, was very successful.
So in in a sense, I was leveraging off those two experiences to say, actually, you know what? There’s something here that is, can solve some of the problems that were around 10, say, 10, 12 years ago when the business was created in terms of lack of, you know, new talent in the market. You know, clearly, the market’s moved on now, and there are a number of businesses trying to do this. But at that point, that, as I say, was a relatively novel concept. And, you could go into new client meetings. And it wasn’t a case of why you different to the next guy was, oh, I’ve not heard of this concept before, which is a nice place to be for anybody and having a conversation because you live in a competitive dialogue, you live in a, a dialogue about your concept. So either they buy the concept and they buy it from you and then they buy it from you because you’re the only person they’ve heard it from or, you move on. But, you know, you see it’s sometimes nicer to be selling the concept not be selling pure competition. It even tells me a little bit about about
Richard Medcalf
Yeah.
Peter Busby
So this is what I’m hearing about this, Just remind me a little bit about this.
Richard Medcalf
It was yeah. Yes. It’s a huge shift, right, from that first business.
Peter Busby
Yes. Abs absolutely. So, you know, I was leveraging those those prior experiences. So I’m not gonna take, you know, I’m not gonna take the entire credit because it took a third party to actually point out that that was the this was the real sweet spot of the of the knowledge and experience that I had. But I think that was, to me a byproduct of recognizing that, you know, if you draw on other people’s input at the right time and and get, you know, people to come and stimulate your thinking, you know, very often there’s a great idea in there. You just don’t know what it is, or you you can’t quite bring it out yourself because maybe your ideas are a little bit fixed or a little bit based on your own experiences. You just need someone else to tease that out. And I you know, that was the benefit of having a third to helping.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. So what I’m hearing is that there was a key moment, or key process in that development phase of really going around and sound having our sounding boards or I’m wondering, were there specific questions that you were asking yourself or other people as you try to hone in on this idea? Because that sounds like it was a key difference from the first time around when you kinda launched. Where here, it sounds like you spent a bit of time looking for that unique concept.
Peter Busby
Yeah. And I think I’d I’d encourage anybody. You know, you’re you’re in a business for a long time if it’s successful, and a lot of the, a lot of the, opportunity and scale that you need to be able to deliver comes from my initial thinking. Because once you’re once you’re in play, then and you’re speaking to clients, it’s much harder to pivot. They’ll clearly you know, you you know, there is an opportunity, but you you’ve got a website. You’re going out to your network with a story. You think there’s only so many relaunches you can go through. So I think it’s really important to try and get that that message right on, as on day 1 as much as you can.
You know, I’m a big fan. I’m a big fan of the the sort of lean startup theory of, you know, gain of, you know, the minimum viable products. You know, Grace wasn’t the tech business. The concept still applies. And, you know, you need to be able to pivot, quickly to to something else. But, you know, time spent up front is never wasted. I think it’s a comfort zone to jump.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. So, Peter, let’s kinda zoom forward perhaps and look at the next phase. That was really in the business concept definition phase. Right? And that temptation, like well, the the the learning there is to really think about the concept, right, to try to find that category where you can, be differentiated. What what did you then find in the kind of early years then? Like, what what’s your kind of biggest learning from perhaps doing it twice, as you started to scale the original concept?
Peter Busby
Yeah. I think I think it’s it’s interesting because, you know, we we built a business that was profitable very quickly because it’s a relatively simple model. You bring people in. You give them some training. You deploy them to client site. You drive utilization as in any professional services model. And relatively quickly, you can move to, to a profit mode very quickly. And secondly, you know, growth then comes because you’re talking to more customers.
And you get referrals, you’ve been delivering great service, and suddenly the business starts to grow quickly, which is which is what happened. I think if I have, in that startup phase, I think the challenge any business faces to the way, you know, you’re getting quite rapid growth without doing any even very without necessarily being very proactive is how fast do you wanna put your foot on that accelerator. If I if I have one, perhaps tiny regret is that we didn’t put that foot down a little bit harder. So we didn’t on with, maybe we didn’t move out of startup into scale up early enough, because actually, there was probably a window to excel, you know, to bring in more, sales capacity a little bit earlier, bringing a little bit more infrastructure. That’s a it’s a fine it’s a fine balance in any business. You know, the scale up phase is is often fraught with risk, and people lose what makes the business great if they’re not careful. And we’ll maybe talk about scale up in a in a little while. But my own learning there was, you know, you know, you maybe just to think a little bit bigger, at an early stage.
But actually, you know what, if we really push this, we could, we could grab even more market share than perhaps we did, which wouldn’t you know, we we were the leading we certainly grabbed that. You know, we we became the number one in our niche, but we could perhaps have accelerated that process and talk to more people, particularly as it, you know, it wasn’t necessarily competitive. It was about going in and talking to more people because it was, as we said before, it was still kind of sell at that stage.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. I’m curious about this. Why do you think you weren’t thinking bigger?
Peter Busby
Because I think in ironically, in the first business, we we probably accelerated too fast before we define define that. We have that clarity of concept before we have that clarity of vision, and that then created some problems. And and perhaps it was a slight nervousness based on that previous experience not to not to over commit, and to to make sure that demand and all the rest of it was sustainable. And I think that, you know, perhaps that previous exuberance was slightly slightly, slightly you know, there was a slightly cautious or cautious attitude to to expansion based on that. It’s not to say that the business wasn’t doing well and expanding quickly. It’s just a what if we use some thought in the beginning, what if we found to yeah. And it’s easier said than done to find great business development and salespeople because that’s still a challenge. Need professional services business and professional services always struggles in your mind with the, with the sales process and the sales challenge as opposed to certain other industries where perhaps it’s a more neutral fit.
So it’s not to say that it would have been successful, necessarily, but I think there was probably we could have taken slightly more risks than we did at that stage.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. It’s an interesting one. The one of the things I often do with my clients actually is remind them that they’re thinking big, but they’re probably not thinking big enough, because, actually, all the operational things tend to tend to weigh on people. And even people who are thinking really big, when I actually push them, quite often, they’re kinda still within their comfort zone of, like, I know how to do this. And, I I’m pretty confident we’re gonna hit our plan.
Peter Busby
I I remember a conversation with with a with, with a friend of mine who, you know, and and and I you know, we talked a little bit about the basis and said, this is going bad. And, you know, you were almost in that imposter syndrome phase when actually probably what you needed at that stage was someone to tap you on the shoulder and go, you know, this is act you know, this is this is, this bit you know, the the the reason you’re doing well is because it’s a great market. Push harder. You know, and I’m a I’m a keen golfer, and it always reminds me of the, what people say about golf. You know, you you play great for 5, 6, 7, and 8 holes, and and you can be under par even. Then there’s a little voice in the back of your mind going this won’t last. And before you know it, you’ve hit a couple of bad shots, and and you’re in your comfort zone. If a lot feels better than me, that could be so stressful playing well.
And I’ve been and it’s there is you’re having the courage to, you know, be saying golf, having the actually having the courage to go low, you know, and shoot a low score takes a little bit of doing because it’s easier to revert to that that position where you’re not you know, it’s hard and it’s difficult.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. It’s easy to reserve. Yeah. Yeah. And we all struggle with that, I think. You know? And,
Peter Busby
Yeah. That’s more comfortable since doing really well. You know? Yeah. So there’s there’s some parallels there.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. For me, it’s the heart of the impact multiplier method as I I guess I’d kinda call it, which is that, you know, we have the strategy stuff, and we have the kind of the inner stuff, and we both have to align. You know? Like, most people think I can see the bigger plan, a better plan, but normally it’s not the better plan that is getting in the way. Sometimes there are things. Normally we do need to uplevel our thinking, but there’s also the kind of the, am I really confident? Like, will we know what happens if we do grow? Will it be okay? Will it be too costly? Will will the business have a huge risk? Will we do make the same mistakes as last time? It’s all that stuff that comes up. Yeah. And I think
Peter Busby
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Getting in your own way. And that that and I think that always comes in with a with a big strap business as well because, you know, you you’re you’re so invested in it that, it’s, you know, sort of your own capital money time of sweat equity that’s gone into it. You know, that that means that, you know, you know, that your risk your personal risk feels multiplied on a number of levels. So, you know, maybe a VC business will be much more aggressive because they’ve got more you know, there’s the capital is is less, you know, emotionally attached to the business.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. That’s so yeah. So absolutely. So I think that whole area, and I think the point about incubating before scaling, you know, which is really get the concept right, then you can scale. Right? But as you said, your first business, if you weren’t quite locked in on the concept, scaling too early, you can just multiply your losses and multiply the stress. Right? So let’s kinda move on. So that’s kind of the this whole phase of, you know, as you were kind of starting to get the the traction and perhaps you could accelerate it a bit further. So what was the next kind of phase of the journey that you you would describe?
Peter Busby
So, so I think I think then you get into the scale up phase, and you start to bring in, you know, more people. And I think one of the big successes of Grace, I think, was the the recruitment of that first generation of management that came into the business. And, you know, why was that successful? Not not because on paper, the people looked, you know, immediately, overqualified or superqualified because they came from a variety of backgrounds. What was what was brilliant about the people we brought in was they their attitude and mentality and the culture that they, helped create. You know, they they love the business. They love what we were trying to do. They loved working with the people we had, and they love the the the clients. And it and it created this enduring culture that that last to this day.
Many of those people are, are still in the business today and are key people. So I think that, you know.
Richard Medcalf
So these people that came in as you scaled up, were these the original people? Sorry. Look. Just let me clarify.
Peter Busby
No. These are people that came in as we scaled up. So the first, I suppose, the first non you know, the first management team is supposed that the business hadn’t and, you know, that that that that recruitment was, you know, incredibly successful. And, you know, yeah, recruiting the the biggest thing you can say about it is, you know, about what one is recruiting, attitude and mindset. And and people that truly care about what they do and, you know, want to be part of something that’s doing doing something good. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, they need
Richard Medcalf
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So what he was the success Just just to drill on that part, Peter, for a second, because I think it’s really key. Right? The criteria for that that management team. Because I heard there was also something there about honoring the past or kinda, like, wanting to build on what’s there. But, yeah, like, if you were to give, like or obviously ask you to mindset that kind of, you know, high level words. But if you had to, like, have your checklist of, like, 5, you know, really key points, they’re like, these people were successful because of these 3, 4, 5 very like, what what about their astute mindset, was it, would you say?
Peter Busby
I think people want yeah. They cared. You know, they really cared. So if something was going wrong, they’d wanna fix it. And they didn’t shirk away from a difficult conversation with a customer or an analyst. So that care, you know, was you know, they didn’t stop thinking about the problems at half past 5, they they were trying to solve them, yeah, sometimes to their own detriment, you know, till till till well, you know, well past 8, 9 o’clock at night. So I think that that care is fundamental. I think secondly, their commitment to what we were trying to do, because, you know, fundamentally, we were trying to give people who were struggling, certainly in the very certainly 10 years ago to get in a role, you know, some very bright people are trying to get a foot a foothold in, in the labor market in a in a decent job.
And, you know, they they felt strongly about it. They were keen to support people through that process and start to make the most of, of their career. So there was a sense of purpose, I think, as well that they were locked into. So find people at care and what they do and believe in what you’re doing is is is really important. You think, you think, thirdly, that they were able to, work with each other. There were no egos. It was a team. There was trust between the people because the people shared similar views and reviews and therefore you know, they felt a sense of, camaraderie with each other because of those shared values and that those those shared attributes.
You know, if there have been if there have been somebody in that team that that didn’t share those attributes or or values, they stood out. But if there had been, they would have stood out like a sore thumb. You know, straight away, they were they wouldn’t I mean, sure, working in the team because that they they they wouldn’t have They never lack of care. They didn’t care or they didn’t believe in the purpose. It would have been incredibly visible and would have felt uncomfortable, not because the people would have, the people would have reacted to them negatively. Just wouldn’t have felt comfortable for someone who didn’t share those sort of, values and attributes.
Richard Medcalf
How did you do it? How did you find these leaders that worked so well and had the right attitude? Because, you know, everyone probably wants these people, but do they always make the right recruitment choices in interviews? Not necessarily. So what was the secret sauce? How did you do that?
Peter Busby
Yeah. I I just think it’s about spending time. I think yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I mean, we’ve all I mean, I’ve I’ve been, you know, been around business for quite a long time. I think you just get a you you get a gut feel for people. I think more than anything, you get a gut feel for what motivates people. And then you you know, there’s a checklist you can have of, you know, have they got, you know, certain, skills.
But I think that attitude just, you know, you can so to say, I think it’s easier sometimes to, you know, it’s not necessarily an interview process. It’s just talking to people and spending a bit of time with them before you jump into a decision and, you know, having a bit of lunch with them, not yeah. Take go and move in some of the formal environment and just getting to know people. And and and it’s it’s interesting now when you read business literature. You know, I recently read Walter Isaacson’s biographies of Steve Jobs and Elon Musk, and it was incredible how much then they spent on recruitment. That was almost one of their most one of their primary jobs is to they still saw even as even when they’d their businesses have grown enormously. Recruitment was still at the top of their list of things to do because it was so important. And I think that’s something sometimes in in many businesses, we think that we should delegate when, actually, it’s probably the the one of the last things we should be delegating, particularly in management and senior positions.
You know, if you if you if you understand the culture of an organization as well as anybody, why you why are you passing out that responsibility too easily to to recruit people who are gonna help maintain, you know, help create or maintain the culture in your organization. You’ve got to keep that close and get, you know, and and get people to meet as many as possible.
Richard Medcalf
I love this point about, you know, you know, taking people out for lunch or just kinda getting to know them outside that formal process. I’m still a bit curious. Were there kinda red flags or, you know, things that people would do, that would kinda let you go, oh, hang on. Yeah. This person’s just out for themselves, or this person is not gonna doesn’t really care about this company. You know, were there things you think
Peter Busby
I think, yeah, I think people make I mean, I think just red flags like, people making unrealistic salary demands straight away or, asking for when’s the next promotion before they’ve yeah. People are also requesting things when they’ve not proved anything. I think the best people, you know, they prove themselves first and then ask for something. So I I it always makes me nervous when I you know? But even when I hear a salesperson ask for, you know, a huge guarantee, basic, I think, well, why wouldn’t you want more commission if if if you’re a great salesperson? And I’m not talking about salespeople necessarily in this exam, but people I’m talking about. But, you know, you’d like to see people who think, no. I’ve got to do something first. I’ve got to show my worth. I’ve got to demonstrate my value.
So I always think people, or people who are thinking about their next job before the one that they’re actually applying for, you know, yes, I’ll I’ll talk about the career opportunity and the career plans, but let’s focus on what what it is and what you need to do first and and that you’ll enjoy this role. Yeah. Is is the person coming in to do the role work we’re actually advertising for, or is this just a a pillar or a pathway to something else? Because if you don’t wanna do the basic job that we’re recruiting you for then, then it’s probably not a good fit because you’re not gonna want to do it, and you’re not gonna perform in this role. So, again, little red flags that I think, again, yeah, become obvious.
Richard Medcalf
So, yeah, so we talked about this whole kind of scale up, getting this generation of management in the fact that that was a really key to success. Is there anything else you wanted to say about that phase, or is there another phase beyond that that we wanna do before we,
Peter Busby
Thinking in terms of scale up, I would yeah. I think that’s my that would be my those have been the main points that I’ve made, I think, is, I still think there’s a bit about, you know, refined you know, spending still spending time on that proposition and refining it. Yeah. I think, again, I would, before you get into the real because once you start to scale, you know, then you then, you know, the the opportunity to really refine your proposition starts to slow down because you you you’re spread much more thinly. You know, one of the one of the things that people often associate with associate with scaling for me is, oh, we mustn’t be no. We maybe we need more products. We need to diversify a little bit. We need to, maybe our core market is not big enough or, I I think that’s that can sometimes be a a siren song.
You know, what’s made you successful is a certain service or product. You know, have you really connected to the full extent of the market that’s out there? You’re probably scratching the surface. So you know, why are you trying to diversify when you know, when you’ve got a huge space in the market to go after? Yes, it yes, it can make sense if it’s very adjacent. But I would I personally would be focusing on that core product to making sure that we’ve got out there and really maximize what the core product can infer before we start thinking about diversification, because inevitably that dilutes what we are known for and what we’re about. And I think the other risk of the scale up phases, and I think everybody, you know, does the every everybody’s aware of it, but everybody does it is that we think, right, we need to we need to start building our infrastructure because, you know, it’s it it might be a little bit ramshackle because we’ve grown quickly. We start looking internally. We stop thinking about the customer. We stop focusing on the market.
So how do we how do we stop that happening? How do we stay focused, laser focused on what’s really important? Because if you’re scaling up as a business, you can guarantee the other people have seen this opportunity by now and are coming into to try and eat your lunch. So if you’re if you’re if you still decided that I’m going to spend a lot of time looking internally, then, you know, they’re out there talking to customers, and they’re positioning themselves in a niche space. So actually, we’re the specialists here. Not those guys that they started to diversify and immediately, yeah, you’ve got the sort of advantage of scale now. But you might have the disadvantage of, you know, you’re moving, you’ve become a little bit cumbersome and started to lose lose focus on what made you successful. So you’ve got to keep coming back to that core rest.
Richard Medcalf
So how did you how did you how did you juggle that, Peter? Because I guess you you might want to improve systems and processes in that phase, right, so that you can take on new demand, and yet you still wanna be focused on the market. So how did you navigate that tension tension?
Peter Busby
I think, obviously, you gotta think about, you know, you gotta try and, you know, probably allocate somebody to focus on on that internal, aspects of the business. But I think, you know, a CEO, in particular, needs to try and stay as externally focused as possible at that stage. It’s it. Yeah. It’s just a not I mean, I’ve done it myself, you just become you become distracted by internal in and you’ve also got internal politics as you’ve got more senior people coming into the business who who need time and attention, they’ve got their own needs. How do you make sure that those people don’t start distracting you away from what the business is all about. I think I think, you know, the the the the the if I, again, if I was just reflecting back on how to do things better, you know, two words coming to my mind are, you know, simplification, you know, as try and keep things as really simple as you can. You know, again, I think there’s some great, great stuff in the Elon Musk book again about how he just walked around the production line of Tesla literally, you know, asking for pieces of the light production line to be removed because he’s so excited because he identified it added no value to to the process as far as he can see.
And and he and he was just constantly in simplification mode. And, you know, he’s doing this.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. He has a phrase, cool, which is, I think, the the biggest risk of for smart people is optimizing things that should not exist.
Peter Busby
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Medcalf
Because it’s there was and, you know, and and there’s processes that handle every little possible exception, but most of those exceptions hardly come up. When they do, people can use their intelligence to actually work around it. You don’t you know, you’re not necessarily building a nuclear power plant.
Peter Busby
Yeah. Just simple. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. So so that simplification, I think, is massive. And I think for the business itself, I think, you know, you’ve got to be really clear on priorities. You know you know, even Steve Jobs, I think, said that, you know, even Apple can only have 3 priorities.
So so you got to prioritize and make sure but make sure the organization knows what those priorities are. It’s alright agreeing that in a small room with a couple of the leaders, but the organization needs to have this these are the only priorities that count. Because, you know, it’s so easy to get distracted by stuff. You know? And and people just, you know, become consumed by being incredibly busy, but they stop delivering on what made the business successful.
Richard Medcalf
Perfect. So we talked about this kinda scale up phase. Is there, like, another phase perhaps? Because, obviously, at some point, you obviously exited as well yourself. They might say that I suspect there might be another chapter here.
Peter Busby
I think the system growth and consistent growth phase is the last phase that, that people are aiming for where, you know, you the the growth, unless you’re in a I mean, some meteoric business that, you know, that lasts forever where growth is exponentially, inevitably, you hit this consistent growth phase where the trajectory sort of tapers a little bit. You’ve addressed a large part of the market. There’s still growth opportunities that may be come through geographic expansion, you might start to look more at a little bit of smart diversification, you might start to look at acquisitions to consolidate the market. But at that stage, I think, again, you know, it’s, it’s about maintaining, maintaining a pace that people can live with. So the organization has sort of probably been through this rapid growth, it’s got into some kind of, it’s, you know, it’s become relatively stable and consistent. Right? How do I keep the business moving forward? How do I stop complacency kicking in? How do I set realistic targets and, and so on and so forth. And I think that that’s I, in one sense, I think that’s almost a different type of leader. That is the business might need at that point, you know, whether the, you know, we’ve not really talked about this, but whether the the founder is the best of an entrepreneurial type operation that’s been through all these phases is the right person to to run a consistent growth phase.
But he’s up for you know, it’s it’s an open question. You know? And they might not even be the right person to really deliver on the scale up. They might all, but, you know, I think, you know, you’re gonna need some help to enable you to make sure you don’t fall into some of those traps yourself because, you know, it again, it’s a
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Because founders tend to wanna be innovating and creating new things. Right? And the risk is they they create they they innovate on the thing that’s starting to work.
Peter Busby
Yeah. And and then and then they start yeah. And and it’s not a operational leaders. Are they people that can deliver on a consistent 15% growth trajectory every year? Is that is that what they wanna be doing? You know, is that the right is the right the right business for them? You know, they are, are they gonna become, you know, so again, we’ve got to be realistic about my own skill sets. I think in these, I mean, we’re a little bit tight in in these phases of the business. You know, you know, you know, it takes a particular type of individual to keep going through all these phases successfully. You’ve gotta be incredibly skilled and, you know, and and and sort of get rid of my obviously, they’ve got VCs. They’ve got all the peep you know, funders and all the rest of it.
And they they’re providing the management support and so on at certain phases. But in a in a bootstrap business, it’s probably a little bit different because you probably have less access to some of that. So I think that’s that’s sort of having good mentors, good support around you asking you those questions. Is this, you know, where do you need help? Or are you the right person? Because nobody wants nobody wants to be the person that.
Richard Medcalf
And Peter, is this where you?
Peter Busby
Yeah. This is where I would be. Yeah. This is where, you know, I stepped in partly through the scale up phase because I asked, you know, not, you know, I asked myself, you know, am I the right person to take things to the next to the next level? Because on that before, is is somebody else going to be able to do that better than me? And I think that’s, that’s the question you’ve got to be. You’ve got to be, you’ve got to be honest with yourself as well about where are my skills? What’s my capability like, you know, in, in that space? Is there somebody better than me to get a business forward?
Richard Medcalf
Was that a hard conversation to have? Because I can imagine that that could be, yeah, it’s quite hard for us to look at your the business you’ve traded and start to say, should it still be me? Do I need to let go? Was was that an easy thing for you, or is it emotional?
Peter Busby
Yeah. And and by this stage, we have we have some private equity, backers on board by this stage. And so, you know, they yeah. That that was it was an easier it wasn’t wasn’t a difficult conversation necessarily to have a demo. I actually well, I know they thought I’ve done a very good job and, and so on. But I think they you know, you’re also sometimes you think sort of that perhaps the business needs to hear a fresh voice perhaps or, you know, you know, it perhaps might it might need that, you know, a slightly more expansive mindset. You know, you carried the business through that phase. You know, I alluded before to the thinking big question.
Maybe he needs someone to think bigger than I had. You know, maybe he had and switch out of that mode and and and then come in with a fresh fresh mindset. So, there’s also a little bit of you of not wanting to, you know, no one wants to be tapped on the shoulder and said, time’s up. You know, you’ve done a great job, but time’s up. And there was no there’s no question of that. But, you know, you you know yourself that you don’t you know, you personally for me is the importance of stepping up when I felt the business was doing really well rather than, you know, you know, rather look like it was a, an exit driven by, you know, some kind of, you know, slowdown or underperformance.
Richard Medcalf
Yeah. But it’s been a really fascinating conversation, Peter. I see the clock is probably upon us a little bit here, but it’s been really fascinating to get a really pragmatic, yeah, the story, you know, of of the journey of the business overlaid with your previous experience, right, as to what you learned, and and to kind of just distill those down some of those key areas. Yeah. The 3 phases that the importance of actually really focusing on that concept before you scale, you know, incubate before you scale, but then not being afraid to scale in that second phase, to really be clear on the executive team, that you’re bringing in and and and their characteristics.
Peter Busby
Yeah. Simplify, keep the priorities clear. And then, yeah, and then in the growth phase, starting to perhaps think about, well, you know, is there a different leader that might you know, with a 20, 30% target on the back of the on their head for the next 5 years, did they? Some people, it’s great. For the the entrepreneurs probably didn’t, doesn’t probably think like that themselves. So, yeah, it’s about your own temperament and your own mentality.
Richard Medcalf
Perfect. Well, hey, Peter, it’s been great, speaking with you about this, and look forward to watching Grace as well as it continues to develop. If people wanna get in touch with you or find out more about Grace, you know, where do they go to do that?
Peter Busby
Just the website is www.grace.uk. I’m on LinkedIn. It’s my only social media presence. I’m sure you can find me. Not many Peter buzz pieces, a few, but there aren’t that many.
Richard Medcalf
Perfect. Okay. We’ll put those into the show notes. Well, hey, Peter. Thanks so much for this conversation. Really appreciated it. And, yeah, well done with building such a fantastic business.
Peter Busby
Thank you, Richard. I really appreciate it. Thanks, good to you. Thanks for the opportunity to speak to that.
Richard Medcalf
You’re welcome. Well, that’s a wrap. If you received value from this conversation, please do leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. We’d deeply appreciate it. And if you’d like to check out the show notes from this episode, head to xpodrant.com/podcast where you’ll find all the details. Now finally, when you’re in top leadership, who supports and challenges you at a deep level to help you multiply your impact? Discover more about the different ways we can support you at xquadrant.com.
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