S14E09: Reinventing the business to add $500M turnover in 4 years, with Michael Riedl (CEO, Team Internet)

Michael Riedl
Of the qualities that we stereotypically assign to women has forged, what was before silos into a 1 cohesive high performance team. And, and this high performance team has then made that things that always inhibited the growth, you start you start scaling up, something breaks in the technology, something you fix it, you further scale up, something goes wrong in compliance. And but once we had when once we had all the components of the all the talents in the company aligned, then suddenly, it’s just started that we could go into the seamless growth mode and scale The business by The factor of of 7 within within only 4 years.

Richard Medcalf
Welcome to the Impact Multiplier CEO podcast. I’m Richard Metcalfe, founder of Xquadrant, and my mission is to help the world’s top CEOs and entrepreneurs shift from incremental to exponential progress and create a huge positive impact on our world. Now that requires you to reinvent yourself and transform your business. So if you’re ready to play a bigger game than ever before, I invite you to join us and become an Impact Multiplier CEO. How can you reinvent a successful business and add $500, 000, 000 turnover in just 4 years? Well, this is what I explore with Michael Rivendell, who is the CEO of Team Internet. Now, that was a business that was founded many years ago, mainly focusing on domain names, and yet there was a moment when Michael realized that there was a huge opportunity for a different business model. He pivoted the company around that idea. They acquired 17 businesses in 4 years.

They then dealt with all The silos that that business had acquired. They streamlined it, and then they scaled really fast. This is a really fascinating conversation about business reinvention, and internal cultural change and external results. So enjoy this conversation with Michael Riedel. Michael, hi, and welcome to the show.

Michael Riedl
Thanks, Richard. Happy to be here today.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Well, it’s a real pleasure to have you because back in season 9, we had Ben Richard, who was the CEO of a company called Rivendell Knit. And Central Knit became, I think under your stewardship, team internet. And so it’s great to actually see the family tree evolving here on the podcast. What I’d love to explore today is really the fascinating journey of that business since we spoke to Ben several years ago, because in the last 4 years, you have reinvented that business. You’ve added, I think, over $500, 000, 000 to the turnover in that period. And you’ve taken a a tiny part of that business, and it’s now become way larger than the original domain name business, that Central NIC was originally founded to to deliver on. So without giving away all the kind of the juicy detail, let me kinda pass it back to you.

And just take us back perhaps 4 years or whatever it was when you came into the business. And what was the context, you know, and what’s happened since?

Michael Riedl
Right. All is accurate. And, of course, I very fondly remember the times when we were still central CentroLINK and when I was very closely working together with with Ben Crawford to build The foundation of what is now TimberGenet. And the company has undergone a dramatic, metamorphosis. So, in 2000 in 2018, Team Internet or The predecessor of Centrelink and, a company called Key Drive agreed to merge with each other. So Key Drive is a company that Alex Ziffrin and and I built over the years from a certain series of acquisitions, to build 1 of the leading domain name wholesalers in the world. And, in 2018, we then decided to to merge our company, Key Drive, with CentroNIC in London. So our ambitions have always been to exit, the company through an IPO or to at least create create, a capital gain event through an IPO, which we then did.

And at Central Lake, Central Lake was just, a marvelous partner because we were both active in The domain space, but with complementary strengths, where where either us or CenturyLink could always be the number 1 in a specific business activity. And this is something important. I will come back to that point later, being the number 1 in in in certain carefully curated niches. And when then finally Ben Crawford and I joined our forces rather than going on the hunt separately to each other. We then we The we went into into overdrive mode and within within only 4 years, acquired 17 other businesses, which we then merged into the into the CentroNIC platform. And 1 of The 1 of these businesses is a company that goes by the name of, guess what, Team Internet.

Richard Medcalf
Ah, there we go.

Michael Riedl
And Team Internet Team Internet was very was very important to us because it it complemented the business case of the old CenturyLink business. Being a domain business is very attractive because you can never outright own a domain name. You always the customer has always renewed on an annual basis, which means that most of your revenue just walks through the door again and again and again. Yet, 1 very large customer group of domain businesses are domain investors. And what is The virtue for the domain business is a pain for the domain investor. Just to hold on to your inventory, you have to pay the renewal fees again and again and again. And this company, Tim Internet, had built the the leading so called domain parking business where these domain vessels could actually submit The domain names. We would then put advertising on these domain names that is very smartly targeted based on the actual domain name, and The share this this income with the domain investors, which then helps them to offset their renewal fees or even generate an outright profit from, holding on to the inventory.

And this is why this was very important to us to actually go into this business because it is good for the long term health also of the domain industry. And, I had already been responsible for such a business, that that went by the name of Name Drive, which was part of the Key Drive Group, which we had merged into into CentroNIC. However, we had sold it a few years ago to this company, Team Internet, because they offered a price that was too good to reject at that time. And, it was it was only it was only through circumstances, that lie in the in the nature of the of the owner of Team Internet, which was Israeli adtech group by the name of Matomi Media, who had, unfortunately, navigated themselves into into a difficult financial situation. And so The this is why they had to dispose of The TBM business, which was the biggest cash generator of the group. And given our healthy financials at CenturyLink and also our excellent understanding of this business. We were then the successful bidders brought into the business. However, we had to go through 1 epiphany in order in order to really make it the business that it is today, which is that these parked domain names are so efficient in in generating revenue from the traffic that they receive The we learned that we can actually advertise these parked domain names on other platforms.

So where we then started putting ads on news websites, on social media, and actually then brought customers to these domain names. Let’s assume you have you have a domain name bestbanks.info. You would then you would then put an ad, the best banks in 2024 on on an advertising network, send users there, and then the algorithm on this on this website, on The parked domain names, is so smart in picking and and delivering the exact right ads and putting them in front of the user that you actually generate more advertising income than what you spend actually promoting your parked domain name. And this this epiphany that this model works was the catalyst to grow this business, which had roughly $75, 000, 000 of revenue in 2019 just when we acquired it and which had helped us to grow it to more than $500, 000, 000 of revenue in 2023. And we’re not yet done with the growth journey, so we have huge plans for this business to grow it to grow it further, because there’s always there’s there’s always a market to bring those who have traffic, like social media, networks, and those who want the traffic, being the advertisers together. And, this is this is, a highly automated business largely working on on AI, in particular machine and deep learning technologies, that The addresses this very big addressable market of online advertising. So only only Google, our main partner in this business, generates $165, 000, 000, 000 of revenue in a year, and and we are we’re happy to, to be a trusted partner of Google and and surfing in the wake of their success.

Richard Medcalf
Wow. So it’s a great a great story. So, what I’m hearing is I mean, when you say it like that, it sounds like, you know, you had this business. You met you acquired 17 countries. You met companies. You met them merged them together. And then you had, like, this epiphany. And then, oh, great.

We can just, like, monetize this. Then by The boom, the revenues appeared. Was it simple as The, or was there actually a deeper transformation in your own business that you had to achieve? So in other words, was it just spotting a thing you could do and it was pretty simple to then turn that on as a revenue stream? Or was it a whole new set of capabilities you had to build to deliver on that insight?

Michael Riedl
Well, this I think this is 1 of the 1 of the eternal truths of business. There is there is no easy success. If if it were it was easy, everyone would do it, and someone else would have already eaten the lunch long time long time ago.

And when you when you scale when you scale a business at that at that pace, every everything must link everything must link together. Product people must resonate with your sales and marketing people. The product people must resonate with with you with the tech people. You need to you need to build the the the right guardrails around the business to make sure that it doesn’t drift off the road, when it’s when it’s accelerating and for the throttle and spinning wheels. And, we were we were we were lucky to put together the right the right management’s team in the company. So we had to do some overhaul, of the of of the management’s team. I very early as the as the chairman of that subsidiary brought in a new CEO to run that business, Guy Lalor, who is still with us, and and and and Gael, with, with many of the with many of the qualities that we stereotypically assign to women, has forged, what was before silos into 1 cohesive high performance team. And and the time for performance team has been made, that things that always inhibited the growth, you start you start scaling up, something breaks in the technology, something you fix it, you further scale up, something goes wrong in compliance.

And but once we had when once we had all the components of the all the talents in the company aligned, then suddenly, it just started that we could go into the seamless growth mode and and and scale and scale the business by a factor of of 7 within within only 4 years.

Richard Medcalf
Wow. So yes. So tell me about that. So how, what’s my question here? The question is, you said, yeah, there were silos. We’ve created 1 high performing team where everyone’s speaking to everybody and things are all aligned. What was the key shift that had to happen to turn those silos into a high performing team? Right? What were the assets you had to implement into the The? Or what were the shifts in thinking that people had to go through?

Michael Riedl
Right. There was, how do how do how are silos created? Silos are often created from a lack of trust. And, and this company that The we had acquired has undergone a relative rapid sequence of ownership. The founders had ceded, the control to a strategic investor. The strategic investor went into into financial difficulties, which then which then made them trying to squeeze out as much money out of the business, not investing into The business anymore. So people in that business were maybe not perfectly trusting the next owner of of the business. And, but how can you how can you build how can you build trust? It’s, I think 1 1 thing that I have learned over time as as a leader, it is more important to ask the right questions than necessary having the right answers to all the questions. Because you are endowed with a fantastic it has all the knowledge.

It just knows all the customers. It knows everything that breaks in the machine room. So it’s it’s that it’s that skill of of art of of asking the right question. Also, truly listening. Also, being willing to to listen to the inconvenient truths and create a space in which, in in which people feel safe to open up about the challenges that they have. And, you as a leader, rather nurturing them and and helping them overcome The challenges rather than rather than punishing them for for things that go wrong.

Richard Medcalf
I’m always curious. Can you think of an example of when you, like, had to, yeah, listen to The inconvenient truth, you know, in the business as there was this shift happening. I’m always curious if there’s examples that come to mind. I know it must have been a long time ago some of this, but, fascinating.

Michael Riedl
Yeah. Well, The are there’s, I mean, judges without without without going too much into into the The into into the internal kitchen, of all of all of all the things of all the things that happen, But that’s but The company had gone through some through some compliance, challenges before we audit where, through the platform, there have been 2 high degrees of, of low quality traffic being sent to advertisers back in 2000 back in 2019. And, you then have to confront the ugly truth and ask them, okay, what what is it that has happened? Was it was it a cultural thing that maybe maybe the company knowingly sacrificed traffic quality over financial success? Was it something that maybe we didn’t simply didn’t see because our business partners were were smarter than the company? And then to really figure out, together with the team, what is it really what is what is the The what is the root source of the symptom that you notice? And then and and and and The going through a cycle, asking them again why why why is it that we’ve done this? Why is it that we’ve done that? And until you really arrive at the root cause of the challenge, I think that’s, that’s in that’s in the painful the painful discovery work that you have to go through. But while there is while there is some pain going through The process, learning learning everything about your business, in particular, also the things that inhibit the success of the organization. If you don’t do that, there’s another pain which is much bigger, which is the pain of regret, The pain of regret of not having built The business that it could have been. And and luckily luckily, we chose the first pain, the pain of discovery and self reflection, and, this has helped us to build the business and the and the success is documented in our financial results.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Absolutely. So what I know, Michael, is that you through this process, you took the business on an internal and an external transformation because you not only rebranded the whole business, right, as Team Internet. I guess Central Knick had been a big brand for you, and you rebranded everything. And you also worked on a whole new set of internal company values and internal cultural, moods. So kind of what was the rationale behind those 2 things, and, like, how where did you start?

Michael Riedl
Right. So we we just started directly with a deep dive into into 1 of the constituents of T Mobile Internet Group. And, when when I stepped up as the CEO of CenturyLink at that time, CenturyLink had become a relatively non inclusive name. We had done so many acquisitions, and these acquisitions together were roughly 200 times the size in terms of Rivendell. Strike The. 100 times the size of of the original CenturyLink business. And, so the name was not very inclusive. And, for for us as a leadership, it was a forward formidable opportunity to, to give the company a new identity, 1 identity that isn’t shared by everyone, not like the the acquirer who had acquired all these businesses, but engage with all the talents in the group, not only those in the in the corporate HQ, to reformulate what is it what is it that we want to be.

And, the name Team Internet is a formidable 1. Because of because of the fact that the group is built from different businesses, like the domain business, like, our original team Internet business that we spoke about, like our product Richard comparison business, fablife.org, and the money and the many other form of great businesses in the portfolio. So the team The team director, just like just like in a soccer team, basically presents that also a soccer team lives from all the different talents, from all the different characters that are that are on the field, just like also the different business that we operate. Each of them is like a player on the football field. However, they still have to play together in order to score a goal. So this is this is why why we really liked, this this team analogy. And on the other hand, you also need to give an organization some kind of focus. You can’t do just everything.

And so here, it’s it’s very clear. Look. Everything that we do has something to do with the Internet. And not just in general terms. The initial idea behind Internet is basically to connect people. And all the businesses that we operate in some way connect other businesses, either in the domain business or connect the domain registry, like, for example, Nominet, who is running .uk, with The businesses with a business that needs a website a local website address for the The. Or as I mentioned before, where we connect consumers on social media with the advertisers that have advertised on search engines. It’s always about connecting different people to create value that without us would not would just be foregone.

And The is why this is why we felt that team and Internet together, pretty much represent of what we wanted to do. Together together with that, we, we also thought about what is what is really important to us really as as values as opposed to financial outcomes, which, of course, every company, at the end of the day, also needs to deliver. And The is we act like owners. To me and to everyone in the leadership team, it is important that people take ownership of what they do in the company. If if they see that there’s something broken in the code, I would expect them to fix it and not wait until someone in the hierarchy gets away of some problem and then then delegates in fixing. So this is a very important, very important value across the entire group, and this is why I’m mentioning it first.

Richard Medcalf
I hope you’re enjoying this conversation. This is just a quick interlude to remind you that my book, Making Time For Strategy, is now available. If you want to be less busy and more successful, I highly recommend that you check it out. Why not head over to making time for strategy.com to find out the details? Now back to the conversation. Well, actually, let let me jump in on that 1 because ownership is a huge, you know, huge thing. Right? Every leader needs 1, needs, craves more ownership in in his team or her team. It’s a huge thing. So, Luca, can I talk about your first of all, your experience in, you know, to what extent have you felt that? You know, has there been a shift? Is it was it is it was it always good and you’re just kinda codifying and celebrating what already exists? That’s probably part of the question.

I suppose the other part is me being slightly provocative, which is, 1 pushback. Some people might say, again, with ownership is, but it’s easy to tell all your employees to be an owner. Right? When you actually have all the stock. Right? And they’re not owners. They’re employees. So then if you’re gonna take the level of ownership you really want because they’re not incentivized in that way. So just kinda wondering whether you had to wrestle with those kind of questions.

Michael Riedl
Right. So, first of all, we have when when when when I when I speak about ownership, I I basically speak about ownership of each and everybody’s own remit based on what they can what they can influence. And, not not everyone can directly influence, the share price of a company. However however, everyone within the remit can contribute to it. And this is also this The is also why this is also why we have, a company wide stock option plan. So everyone in the company is included in the stock option plan, not only not only the senior executives of the company. And we also have we also have a bonus plan that is very closely linked to that’s very closely linked to the financial results of the company. So it’s not a direct profit share, but comes very close to a profit share agreement.

And, so if everyone if everyone does the best they can do in their within their own remit, the whole should also resonate with that and perform well. And then there will also be positive positive Impact on each and every 1 in in in the in the company. And, III truly feel I truly feel that there is, that there is a change in in the company. And, but it it The comes back to that trust aspect that I said that I that I mentioned before. In in order in order to get there, you need to come to The culture where people rather seek forgiveness for having done something wrong rather than seeking for approval and maybe never getting it because there are too many layers of of hierarchy above. And, here, given that this is a leadership channel, as a leader, you need to be authentic, and you also need to live up to that value. And and then and then and then also grant forgiveness if someone in in good faith thought to do the right thing, and maybe later proved to not be the right thing. And, but but on this on this level, we as leaders are not in any way better than the people doing the actual work in, probably in most in most cases, the, the software engineer will know much better what’s to fix in his codes than I could ever know in The years, and The is why I think it’s so important to empower your team in order to do the best. And, this is 1 how we’ve how we’ve managed to steer the ship out of directly out of a pandemic into a big confidence shift in the European economy, caused not only by hyperinflation, increasing interest rates, The Ukraine war. And we’ve never we’ve never seen we’ve never seen any quarter with, with with decline. So each each quarter is best is is better than the than the prior year quarter despite all The adverse impacts to the left and into the right. And The this is my this is my sincere conviction. You can only achieve when you activate this warm intelligence within your organization The everyone knows what what The what they need to do for company success. If everything has to run through 1 central nervous system, you just become too slow.

Just like your body has certain reflexes, you just you you step you step on a thorn, and you instantly go back without your brain for us having to think about it. Oh, what happened? And then tells you to to to withdraw the foot. And I think The you you need an organization needs some instincts and some reflexes in order in order to be nimble in in hyperdynamic times like ours.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Thank you, Michael. I looked at this for that a little bit more. That’s like the The idea of that decentralization. Right? That’s kinda nervous system that allows you to respond in different parts of the organization. What was the thing that you did to really create that decentralized intelligence? You know, if you were to really sum it up and or recommend like, you know, 1 or 2 key moves, power move, were The.

Michael Riedl
So, so so I did 1 key move was to recognize what we are, which at that time was not yet 1 unified business where everything is streamlined from the left to the right, but to recognize The, that underlying the group, The were still 4 relatively distinct businesses. And, so 1 of the 1 of the first steps, I think that was after only 6 weeks on the job, We changed the entire org chart from a functional 1 to a divisional 1, recognizing that some businesses are still distinct, giving them giving them their own nervous system in the form of of a proper divisional CEO level with a divisional CEO, individual CCO or COO or whatever the most important talents were to execute on The specific organization. This has already broken down the management, into 4 way more nimble divisions rather than having to run all decisions through main board of the company. And then also to inspire these leadership teams to basically do the same thing, to really think like what what are what are the units, what are the true constituents of of your division, how do you need to organize yourself so that there’s always someone in charge who can very quickly react to any to any changing market needs. And, yes, I would say that the visual reorganization was certainly 1 of the key steps in order to step up in terms of flexibility and reactivity of the company.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. Great move. So within just a few weeks, where you say we can have 4 management teams running these things rather than trying to go for the joined up. It sounds like you actually went into more chaos by having these decentralized things rather than saying, because almost the instinct I could have imagined, it could have been The say, we’ve got all these businesses. We wanna create 1 1 team Internet. Right? 1 unified thing and actually go the other way.

Did you have that desire? Did you have a conflict? Like, as in, we need to bring people together and not separate them into more silos.

Michael Riedl
The is also why why we’ve chosen the the sequence to first to let your your organization, and then engage with the 4 divisions and and and also also the corporate level to come up with 1 shared new identity, which we then chose to be Team Internet. And to me, it was it was way less important what the actual name would be than than the fact that we basically came up with it together, and it was a shared new name with which everyone identified. I think the other way around the other way around in the sequence, the result might have been different. Like, I now we just got, like, 1 identity, and now we’re splitting it up. Now we did the other way around. We first we first brought order into the house, looked for divisions. Everyone knows exactly what they need to do. And The, as a team, form your new identity.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. That’s a really great insight. So perhaps on that, Michael, let’s turn to the future. What would you love to see how would you love to see Team Internet multiply its impact in the future? Obviously, you’ve done extraordinarily well over the last few years. You know, what would be an amazing goal or amazing outcome over the next few years? Is it more of the same? Was there something new or exciting or different that you want to be?

Michael Riedl
Well, the the question is when you say more of the same, the question is how how to define the same. We’re pretty we’re pretty unique. But we have, The have a few we have a few key principles, almost like constitutional principles. So 1 of 1 of the rules is, if we if we choose to do something, we want to be the number 1 worldwide in it. And sometimes The might then we might then see that we will The, in in some niche activities, then settle as only as a national champion or as 1 of the world’s market leaders, but that’s that’s always our ambition. If we decide to be very carefully curate The niches in which we operate. And for example, that business I described first, we are the unconstitutional world market leader with notable lead. And, that’s always our ambition.

And even if you’re not there yet, the The never goes never goes away. We always want to play Champions League, Champions League, and we are going in there to take home the cup and not, and not just for for for playing on the field. And but taking this taking this away from this rather, probably, slightly materialistic perspective, it’s also it’s also great for the people. So what what what do we leave what as as leaders, what do we leave behind? Again, we leave behind The legacy, the form of an organization that that we have had to form, to find to find itself a bit a bit like your own children, nurture them, educate them, train them, but 1 day, they will need to spread The wings and fly. And, with this with with this with this aspiration, but I would not say only aspiration, but also with this with the with the belief that we can win. This this gives an an incredible motivation to the team, just knowing, okay, this is what we do, which also tells them what we don’t do. And our aim is just to be the best at it because people always love to win, else there would be no sports if there was no fun in winning. And this The also gives the staff all the talents in our company purpose beyond the purely materialistic, aspects of life.

Today, software engineers are still in high demand. So if they would not like what they do, they could probably move on to somewhere. But, they love what they do. They know that they are among the best in their discipline, and, this is why this is why they love to play and are are happy to come to the field and score some goals every day.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. I love it. It’s 1 of my phrases I often tell my clients, like, to help create games. You can win. People can win. Right? Help people set them up for success.

Michael Riedl
Yes. And I think I think it’s I think it’s super Impact, and this also where where you need to not only choose what you do, you also need to choose what not to do. And if there’s a game that you that you objectively are very unlikely to win, then that’s maybe not where you should put your energy to it.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. And and, Michael, how about you? As the business continues to scale and grow, how might you need to shift how you operate to multiply your own impact within the business? Because we always have to reinvent ourselves as the business reinvents itself.

Michael Riedl
Yes. Yes. Very very, very fair point. And The first step that you need to go through is to raise above the the level of the manager, not not of going through a detail and delegating task, but more inspiring managers to identify what the necessary tasks are so that they basically propagate your vision down into the organization. And, as we as we as we scale up, also The the the my level of direct reports also rise The the level of leaders. And so so you’re basic you basically need to become The super leader that that cannot only inspire managers, but The can also inspire The leaders so that they say, look. I really I really like this vision. This is really what I this is really what I want to dedicate my life to, which is 1 of the most important decisions that you can do.

Of course, most of us need a job to pay their bills, but it becomes even greater when it’s when when what you do becomes a true passion and is is is what what you love. And I think currently at this stage, many people most people in our group are exactly at that point that we that we see that we have true success. We are winning. We’re winning in all the disciplines in which in which we engage. And, this this this gives everyone a dramatic amount of purpose and, an energy to drive the story forward.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Beautiful. So what I’m hearing is, yeah. The shift is you put it. You can lead. You can do. You can manage. You can lead managers, and then you’re leading leaders.

To create that that culture that spreads and scales beyond what’s already happened.

Michael Riedl
Right. So, but if if you want to paraphrase this, first, you take over the organization, and you take it to where it must be. You first fix all the things that you’ve that that you find that simply can’t be the way that they are. The, then you’ve worked together with your team to take The company where it should be, like stepping up a little bit. But but then but then the real the real target is to identify what your organization could be. And then and then basically draw up that vision, promote The vision with an organization, build consensus around it, build enthusiasm around the vision so that you can basically pull all the people to support your business, rather than just, rather than just, coming there for for the month to month paycheck.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Well, thank you. Hey. That’s very I love it. Must from what where it must be to where it should be to what it could be and potentially to what it will be, right, as it all happens. So, Michael Hayes, it’s a fascinating story. Thank you for sharing The story of this transformation. Right? Where you took a a very traditional if you can call it traditional, it’s internet business.

But like in a traditional domain name business, you managed to reinvent it. You’ve, unified a whole bunch of separate elements. You’ve created a consistent culture. You made an agile business. You’ve found new business models, 3 d Rivendell growth. So it’s been a fascinating story to to hear and to kind of pick up from from where we left it with Ben. So if people wanna kinda find out, you know, connect with you or find out more about the business, where do they go for that?

Michael Riedl
Well, our our Internet address is, tpinternet.com. As a probably the main business, we, of course, call our own name without any dashes.

Richard Medcalf
I didn’t expect nothing less.

Michael Riedl
I am I try to share as much of my journey as I as I as I as I may on LinkedIn. So I’m I’m I’m rather active there. So, happy to have people follow me there and and read more about all the next steps that we are up to.

Richard Medcalf
Perfect. Well, hey, Michael. Thanks so much. I look forward to, following along on the adventure.

Michael Riedl
Thanks. Thanks for interviewing me today, Richard. It was really a pleasure talking with you today, and, have a good day.

Richard Medcalf
Thank you. Well, that’s a wrap. If you received value from this conversation, please do leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. We’d deeply appreciate it. And if you’d like to check out the show notes from this episode, head to expudrent.com/podcast, where you’ll find all the details. Now finally, when you’re in top leadership, who supports and challenges you at a deep level to help you multiply your impact. Discover more about the different ways we can support you at Xquadrant com.