S13E26: The ‘giving back mindset’, with Paul Feith (CEO, Paul Gregory Media)

Paul Feith
If a for profit happens to fall in our lap because some for profit companies like the idea of working with a marketing agency that's transparent, that has good values and is giving back to the community. Good corporate social responsibility foundations. It's kind of what we're centered around. You wouldn't believe how many non profits like to work with, you know, that type of, an agency. So we do take them and of course they have to be mission driven themselves. They can't just be out for profit. We're not that kind of marketing company and and they subsidize a little bit. You know, they do have bigger budgets and they help subsidize some of the work we have with non profits.

Now, some non profits we work with, they do have good budgets. They have big budgets and that's great. And there's other non profits that we work with that have very tiny budgets. We can do a lot in an hour. What what most freelancers or, you know, the in house marketing teams can would take 5 hours or 10 hours. We we actually operate on that factor of 5 or factor of 10.

Richard Medcalf
Welcome to the Impact Multiplier CEO podcast. I'm Richard Metcalfe, founder of XQuadrant, and my mission is to help the world's top CEOs and entrepreneurs shift from incremental to exponential progress and create a huge to impact on our world. Now that requires you to reinvent yourself and transform your business. So if you're ready to play a bigger game than ever before, I invite you to join us and become an impact multiplier Paul Fife is founder and CEO of Paul Gregory Media, A digital marketing agency. What I wanted to talk to him about today was how his mission emerged organically over time. He didn't set his business up To be a b corporation, you didn't have purpose embedded at the start, but it emerged. And it was a commitment he wanted to make. So we look at How he how he did that and also how he addresses really practical issues.

Paul's business mainly serves nonprofits, so budgets can be tight. But he's come up with creative solutions to real key issues such as employee attraction and retention. And it's really interesting to see how he does that And how he embeds the culture of giving back into his business. Now one of the things about giving back is it can be easy, As people say, to be generous with other people's money. But as the owner of this small business, every initiative he takes, giving his employees time away to other Worthy causes giving money away. It comes directly out of his own personal bottom line if you want. So we talk about the mindset that That he had to have in order to make that giving back culture a reality. So this is a great lesson for all of us Listening to this conversation with Paul Fife.

Hi, Paul, and welcome to the show.

Paul Feith
Thank you for having me. Good to be here.

Richard Medcalf
So what I know about you, Paul, is that you're the founder, the CEO of Paul Gregory Media, digital marketing agency. You work with nonprofits to help them spread their message. As you put it, you help people to help people. You help people. Say that again. You help people who help people, right, as you're looking at a second order impact.

Paul Feith
Yes. Well, that had to be behind the green curtain.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. There we go. Yeah. Exactly. So you're the exactly the power behind the throne. And I guess what I'm curious about is how did that mission emerge? Because you said that when you started the company, that wasn't the that wasn't the original aim, Or at least you didn't have that, let's say, the same sense of purpose as you do now, something which has emerged along the way. So as this season is business as a force for good, I'd love to explore with you a little bit about how you realized that you had the potential to be a force for good in this business.

Paul Feith
Yeah. Well, I started out as a graph graphic designer. So employee of 1 or a company of 1 and, it took quite a number of years. It started in 2006, back in 2013, which is, you know, another 3rd, 7 years later, hired my 1st employee. And then in 2011, just before that, I joined a board of directors for the 1st time. It was my 1st volunteer experience, believe it or not. I was in my forties, so kind of late in life volunteering and I just caught the bug. I loved governance.

I loved, you know, fundraising and I loved volunteer recruitment and I just got the bug. And next thing I knew I joined another board and another and realized that I loved helping people. I loved rallying around a mission. And so I decided to put that kind of edict and culture into the business. And before I knew it, within a few years, people started seeking us out as candidates for employment because they like the idea of doing purpose driven marketing, I guess.

Richard Medcalf
How'd that worked for you? Because I think there can be a flip side if other people I've spoken to have said sometimes it can be there can be a dark side to that because this Become so attractive to people perhaps, that people who might be applying who'd aren't actually a fit. So I'm just kinda wondering how you found that or actually whether it's all been positive for you in that in terms of Well, yeah. You're that's a good point.

Paul Feith
You do have to start with, you know, skills, soft skills, talent. And so the interview process doesn't change. It's just the cherry on top. I think when they said, you know, we we really love working. And at at first, I probably thought it was like just, you know, an interview thing where they're just sugar coating and and propping you up and, blowing some, what do you call it? Blowing sunshine up your skirt or whatever, and you know, scoring some points to get the to get the job. But it Really, after a few years, you can't I can detect, you know, who's who's just saying it to say it because you can look at their LinkedIn profile file or their resume. And you could see if they've done volunteer work in the past or if they've worked for nonprofits in the past.

And when those things, you know, converge, and you see that they truly are looking to do some purpose driven or mission driven marketing. It, it ends up being a good fit because it can't work at Paul Gregory media and not believe in a mission or, volunteering in your community or giving back or sustainability or good governance or any of the tenants that we have in our organization. It would just rub you the wrong way, I would think.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Very fascinating. So, okay. So this mission started to emerge as you, you went on your own journey of serving in, in different places. And so, So now you focus, I think, pretty much exclusively on on nonprofit organizations. Now these don't necessarily have the same budgets potentially as Other corporate clients you might be pursuing. So how have you had to kind of structure the business differently from what you might have done otherwise to deliver on that mission and keep the lights on and, And so forth.

Paul Feith
That's a great question. While we do focus our marketing efforts on nonprofits. If a for profit happens to fall in our lap because some for profit companies like the idea of working with a marketing agency that's transparent, that has good values and is giving back to the community. Good corporate social responsibility foundations. It's kind of what we're centered around. You wouldn't believe how many non profits like to work with, you know, that type of, an agency. So we do take them and of course they have to be mission driven themselves.

They can't just be out for profit. We're not that kind of marketing company and they subsidize a little bit. You know, they do have bigger budgets and they help subsidize some of the work we have with non profits. Now, some non profits we work with, they do have good budgets. They have big budgets and that's great. And there's other non profits that we work with that have very tiny budgets. We can do a lot in an hour. What, what most freelancers or, you know, the in house marketing teams can, would take 5 hours or 10 hours.

We, we actually operate on that factor of 5 or factor of 10. So when they say, well, we don't know if we can afford an agency. Well, 1 hour of what we can do in an hour would surprise you. And all of a sudden it does become affordable.

Richard Medcalf
So how do you do that? Do you have a huge chat GPT algorithm in the background?

Paul Feith
Yes. Yes. That's that's what actually is behind the green curtain. No. No. While though we are using it for some, interesting, starting points, but you know, when it comes down to hiring the right people and doing the same things over and over and over day. I mean, from a content strategy and a critical thinking point, standpoint. It's different every hour, different every day, but when you're doing social media and that's your job or you're doing artwork and design or you're doing.

And you have 15 years of experience or 10 years of experience. We're hiring really good people that. Well, let's just take design. What they can do in an hour, they can design a flyer and 3 social media posts and, save the date postcard, you know, whereas it might take somebody else to like 5 hours they're thinking about like, what are they gonna say? What's the messaging gonna be? How does it fit into our overall strategy before they even hit pen to paper?

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. That's really interesting. Isn't it? Because I think speed to deliver is so important because you get, you, it has so many benefits, That's right. You have more reps, you get, you go up your learning curve faster. Actually, you know, you, you get more iterations that just in general, I think it's, I've learned that my own career that actually when you know what you're up to, just optimizing, actually getting really good at delivering stuff fast is is important.

Paul Feith
Yeah. Well, there's a saying, right? You could have it fast. You could have it cheap or you could have it good. You can only pick 2. And, I think that holds true. We're really good and we're really fast, but it's not gonna be cheap, but At the same point, what we can do in that hour and, you know, our blended rate is actually a lot lower than most agencies because nonprofits can only afford so much. But What we it may seem expensive for that 8, non profit agent, or organization, but what we what we actually deliver, They realize there's a lot of value there.

Richard Medcalf
Okay. So we're getting back to this this question about how you kinda balance that. So there's this there's there's a client portfolio component here. Right? How about people? So we're talking about, you know, bringing people on board. How, you know, how do you kind of retain them, keep them? Is it is the mission enough Basically, to kind of like, is that really all you need to do is basically have a compelling mission and then then you're done or do you have to do you find you have to work?

Paul Feith
Well, naively, I used to think so. Right? But no. Like any business, there's a certain attrition rate actually in marketing, and most agencies can tell you this. The attrition rate's kinda high in digital marketing. And I don't know why that is, but, I I think maybe because there's a lot of marketing, jobs and opportunities out there. So 2 years is what I found in the past 17 years that I've been doing this 2 years is about the average somebody will stay. So we had to do something. Not only attract the talent, but how do we keep them? And, you know, we could pay them more certainly.

But there's a there's a ceiling to that, right? Because again, we're working for non profits and there's only so much coming in, so there can only be so much you know, but that's one way. The other way is through perks and benefits. So we, did a 100% remote workforce. That's 1, right? You get to work from home. 2 is, we piloted a, 4 day work week. We read some article from Norway somewhere and said, This is really successful. We thought, hey, let's just work on a work life balance. And so we did a 4 day work week every Friday off and, it's It's only a 32 hour work week.

We're not trying to pack 40 hours into 4 days. But Richard, think about this for a second. You get every Friday off. So In a year, you already get 52 days off. Now you add 8 holidays on top of that, you get 60 days off and we require a mandatory 2 weeks because we also that's our 3rd perk is we get unlimited PTO within reason. As long as your work is done, you get PTO. We measure We measure performance based on work delivered on time, not how much work you're doing. So.

Yeah. I have to take them at least on the, your unlimited paid time off, you have to take at least 2 weeks, which is 8 more days. So you're coming out of the gate when you're first hired, you get 68 days off a year, which is pretty incredible.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Which is yeah. It's a differentiator. Right? Yeah.

Paul Feith
Definitely. Right. So now if you leave our organization to work for somebody else. And you're using us as a step in stone, which, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. A lot more people are doing it these days and, It just lowers our attrition rate because now when they go to another company, are they gonna be able to work remotely? Are they gonna be able to do a 32 hour work week and have Fridays off? Are they gonna have unlimited PTO or do they have 2 weeks and they gotta figure out when they're gonna take that off as opposed to a minimum of 68 days off a year. And that's just the way we can, you know, and it's not perfect. Right? People will leave and they'll find other opportunities. They'll give, they'll give all that up, you know, just as a way to grow and, you know, whatever. But, to lower our attrition rate, that's what we've done.

Richard Medcalf
It reminds me of a conversation I was having with my son just the other day, who was calculating that if we, if we spread, if we took the really long summer holidays that we get here, which is over 2 months for school, and spread them out across the, you know, you could have an extra day off a week and have 3 day weekends. And he was definitely he was strategizing on, yeah, a different way of organizing his school life.

Paul Feith
Oh, wow. So is it working out the hours and how we could save a day or a day? Nice. That's motivated.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Well, if this is like, well, we'd rather this freaking 2 months off in 1 blog, I'd love it to have, you know, any work you know, have every Wednesday off. So I'd have 2 days on, 1 day off, you know, he was kind of, strategizing and doing the counting. So, anyway, I digress. But I think this point of, Yeah. Of working on the employee experience, you know, in those really tangible ways without trying without it being a secret for just saying, Yeah. All your work's still the same. All your hours are basically the same, but you can kinda take off time, which at the end of the day, the work the pressure is still there. But it sounds what you've done is you have That was good as well.

Paul Feith
Yeah. Yeah. I don't wanna create more pressure for them by saying, oh, we gotta get our work done so we could take Friday off, but it did, Think of it this way. If we didn't have Fridays off, sometimes you have to work the weekends. Sometimes you have to go to an event or you have a website launch or whatever. So Friday was no different. Every once in a while we had to put in an hour or 2 on a Friday just because there was something going on. So we treated it just like a weekend took takes the pressure off.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Makes sense. Well, I've been doing a lot of thinking myself about, you know, the 80, 20 principle as it applies to time. And When you do that, then obviously you suddenly realize, well, that bottom 20%. Yeah. 80 20 rule.

Paul Feith
Absolutely. Probably doesn't really matter. Right?

Richard Medcalf
Free doesn't make an impact. It doesn't make an impact. Yeah. So, so Paul, so tell me what's next for your business? So how do you want to multiply your impact, as a company.

Paul Feith
Well, I mean, like all the non profits that come to us and say, you know, we're the best kept secret and we wanna, you know, increase our capacity so that we serve more people. We're no different. We're a for profit company, but we wanna increase our awareness so that we could help more non profits. We're So good at what we do. I remember the saying, it's like, don't do what you like in life as far as our profession because you may not be good at it. So do what you're good at and you may you may end up liking it. And I'm certainly in the latter portion of that.

I never I mean, I guess why I like graphic design, that's nowhere near what I'm doing now. It's not my role, but we're good at it. And we have really good people doing it. So we can help so many more nonprofit companies out there with their marketing. And So they're not the best kept secret anymore. So our goal and our growth and our mission is to just help more and, and also give back to our community. We have. We have a couple of things going on where we give 1%.

We're committed to giving 1% of gross revenue, not net revenue, but gross revenue. Back to our community, profit organizations in the form of a cash donation. And then, we give 15% of our time as well, which is a huge chunk. In 2020 when the pandemic hit, we gave 50, five 0% of our time, donated in kind. And then, and now we've kind of settled in and we're now 15% of all of our time and work that we do is donated in kind. So it kinda keeps our feet rooted to the ground and then our community. So So, Paul, tell me about that.

Richard Medcalf
Tell me about your decision process because you're the owner of this company. That's probably you know, that comes out of your, Whatever. Your income, your dividend for the year, your pension part, whatever it is.

Paul Feith
It does come out of me...

Richard Medcalf
So that was, you know, you that's on you. Right? I mean, you're you're taking that you're taking that hit if you like, if it is a hit. Right? But Well,

Paul Feith
Well, sure, because the employees get paid regardless, but, yeah.

Richard Medcalf
I hope you're enjoying this conversation. This is just a quick interlude to remind you that my book, Making Time for Strategy, is now available. If you wanna be less busy and more successful, I highly recommend that you check it out. Why not head over to making time for strategy. Come to find out the details. Now back to the conversation. What process do you and did you have to go do, if any, to kind of mentally go, that's what we're gonna do because you're kind of signing up.

A big deal there, you want percent of revenue, it's definitely more, you know, it's Probably a lot more in terms of profit, the time that you should be correcting towards other initiatives. What what was your I mean, just really curious because it's it's a great mindset. I wanna just at the beginning, so what happened? 

Paul Feith
Well, kudos to you for asking because nobody's ever asked me that before. So very, very insightful question. 2020 is what did it. 2020 people didn't know open organizations didn't know, if If they're going to get funded, if they're going to get donors, it was just a scary time, especially around. May June, So they stopped a lot of their marketing contracts with us and a lot of the retainers. They just said, Hey, we're just gonna pause. We don't know what's going on and we don't know when it's gonna end. It was just a big time of uncertainty, but there was still a lot of work to be done.

So we said, you know what? Just for the next couple of weeks or for the next month, we're going to keep doing some things for you. And that's where we donated 50% of our time in 2020. In 2021, I think it was like, 35 and it kind of settled down to 15 after 3 years. So That's where the idea came from. We basically needed to keep busy. I was paying salaries regardless and having only half the work or a third of the work that we formally had, and now we're twiddling their thumbs. It made sense to at least keep people busy. Again, you know, The salaries came out of my pocket and there was not enough revenue to cut it, recover it in, in some cases.

So, you know, we had a, you know, borrow from credit and whatnot to make, to make that work. But we did get a lot of recognition and thanks and, appreciation from new clients and it was, you know, local chambers of commerce and rotaries and, philanthropic organizations recognized us for for the work we did those years and, and that gave us some recognition to bring on new clients. So I think sometimes just doing good, to mean good business. I mean, that should be, that should be one takeaway from this, right? Doing good means good business. 

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. I'm sure those clients where you stood by them in their difficult time, they've probably became super loyal, Referred you and lots of other good things coming out of that. Right? Because, well, you don't put money where your mouth was. Right? You you were there when they didn't necessarily pay.

Paul Feith
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think they are thankful for that. And plus it's also a way that we were able to give back to our community because these are, we're talking about clients that operate within our County. Right? So their beneficiaries were served and that made me feel good.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Tell me about this local focus. I know you you have a focus of serving your local community, your local county. Was that something again which emerged? Was it very deliberate, focused you, or is it just natural those are the relationships you add very locally and that's how you build the business? Well, I mean, yeah, we do have a couple of national clients, but locally because I think our business grew because the local chamber of commerce, the local rotary, the local exchange club and a couple of other professional organizations that we just show FaceTime and we contribute and we volunteer. We sit on committees and we sit on boards. So of course it makes sense that if we're known in the local county, we're gonna be getting clients from the local county. I can't tell you how many times, somebody will call me or email me and says, your name has been banging around our office for 2 years now. We finally got a grant and we're ready to spend some money. So reputation precedes us in in the local community. And the county is big enough. I mean, there's three thousand, 4000 nonprofit organizations in the county.

Paul Feith
There's a lot to go around.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Yeah. That's what a great position to be in, right? Where, Where your name is already being used in those contexts a couple of years ahead of people coming to you.

Paul Feith
Yes. Yes. Yeah. And we we could use that, case studies and testimonials to parlay us into some national accounts, which we have done. Although I will say some of our national accounts, they're headquartered locally. So, it would be unusual for us to get a national account that's not located in the state of Illinois, in this country, but, it it has happened.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. So, Yeah. I love that local rootedness, how it served you. It's probably that I'm thinking of Facebook, right, when they started.

Right. They were working with a couple of universities Or whatever. Right? So you get that kind of critical mass in a particular zone. And, yeah, it I think, I've seen both businesses. Right? Some people go very global from the start, which if you're searching a certain niche, perhaps that can work. But, but it sounds like for you it was more almost organic, right, because those were the areas where you were showing up in, you know, in Well.

Paul Feith
Yeah, I mean that, and the fact that once we niched down into a nonprofit world. It is like any other business, but it's also got its unique challenges. Nonprofits care about only 3 things, right? They care about funding, they care about donor. Well, donors are part of funding the camp, a funder, volunteer recruitment and awareness. At the end of the day, it goes into the one of those 3 buckets. And, You know, with a niche like that and then a local focus, there's a trust built in, You know, before they even say, you know, we want to work with you or not. I used to love the conversation of us versus another agency. What I didn't like in the beginning before we made a name for ourselves is why you should work with an agency at all or why we should work with, You know, I'm not here to convince you to work with us or not.

I'm here to understand what your challenge is and. Find out whether we have a solution for that challenge. And then I'll have the conversation of why us versus any other agency. I'd love that conversation. Because there's not that many agencies out there that niche into a non profit world. So that would be our our edge. 

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Nice. So So let me just change the, change the the gear a little bit here, Paul. One of my favorite questions is, how do you need to change if you want your Business to multiply the impact scale, help all these nonprofits that you're not currently serving. Because as a leader, we're generally the lead on our own organization. Right? We're we're, a driver and in some ways limiting it in some way. So what's a bit trenchy for you, if you want It's more fire impact in this area.

Paul Feith
Yeah. Well, I think I spent most of my time last year. Great question, by the way. Spent most of my time last year removing myself and getting out of the way. I was managing, I was basically the account manager for 40 clients and that's just really impossible. And so balls were dropping. So then what I did is I spoke that out and said, okay, each of the employees we're gonna that they do most of the work on for that client. They're going to also manage the account and do the project management.

I'm going to empower them to make the decisions instead of having to have everything come through me. And I also hired an account, a general account manager to take 11 of my. That I kept and took all 11 and, and manages those. It's important to get out of the way. It's important to empower. Your employees to make those decisions and giving them processes and standard operating procedures so that they can do them well. So I spent all last year doing that and it freed up my time to do What is now my job, which is operations and scaling. So, it's a big change from my graphic design days.

Richard Medcalf
So that's kind of the rearview mirror. You spent the last, getting to this place where now you have this opportunity To do operations and scaling. So going forward, what's the kind of what's that gonna be that slightly uncomfortable growth area That will make the biggest difference.

Paul Feith
I think for us right now, Richard, it's it's sales, Right? So finding a resource to handle sales as opposed to, and we say this for our other, our own clients, you know, we get a lot of referrals, but relying on referrals is the s absolute slowest way to grow a business. It's a great pat on the back and testament that you're doing a great job. But it's also the absolute slowest way you can grow your business. So in order to get beyond that and use, you know, so now we've scaled or we've, we've created a structure so that we can scale. It's now more about sales and getting our name out there and building our own awareness.

Richard Medcalf
So that was our focus and is our focus this year. And does that require you to Do that selling or do you need to recruit? Is that something you want to spend more of your time on or are you just looking at more building a team to do that?

Paul Feith
Well, you know, when you when you start off as a solopreneur, you're you have to be good at sales. And I never considered myself a salesman, because It's always a conversation and I love having those conversations. I know what we do really well, so I could talk about if we can solve a challenge. You wanna get more clients, you wanna get more, you wanna promote an event. You wanna figure out how to take in donations with Apple Pay. We could solve all those problems and I can tell them right on the phone or in an email like this, how much it'll cost us, how long it'll take, we'll have it. We'll have it done. So.

Yes, I have to be involved in it. I have to be involved probably in the training aspect of it for sure. I'm starting to record calls and sales calls so that we can build a library of like how to handle objections and all the typical things you would do in sales. But I'm not good. I am not a good salesman. I'm not, I'm not a hunter, Richard. I don't not good at going after, new business and, nurturing that relationship until there's a sale and the non profit world that that could be a year. So like anything we're doing now is going to happen. We won't see any income from that until next year.

Richard Medcalf
Typically. Got it. Got it. Yeah. So that sounds like there's a you need to be prepared for that. I mean, that's it, hiring somebody who might not Deliver results overnight, that's quite an investment, right, for you by the sound of it?

Paul Feith
Initially, yeah. Typically, in an just see where all you would do a draw and, a base plus commission so that you can get over that initial. 6 month hump. But then once that starts, it just never, you know, now now you've got a pipeline. Now, you know, you can predict, you know, after that point.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, definitely. Perfect. So, so Paul, this has been an interesting conversation. I think it's interesting how you've evolved, as you're growing the business in all these dimensions. Right? Yeah. Sense of purpose, the kind of clients that you want to work with. And then I think it was last phase of really spending a year on extracting yourself.

It's such a I wanna credit to you for this because so many people get stuck in that incremental phase, right, where they're just doing all the things in the business. And and it doesn't matter whether it's a small business or a large business. It can be the same, right? There's people in multinationals who are, yeah, and I'd say almost everybody's operating one level down from where they should to be.

Paul Feith
Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, you always hear, right? You you're working in the business instead of on the business. That's kind of a mantra that's been around, excuse me, for a long time. And I've heard it, but, and it's one thing to understand it and another thing to actually do it. And I think you need a lot of consulting and help on the outside. One of the best things I did was I did hire a business and leadership coach, a few years back.

And then after that I joined a professional association for marketing agencies and just to be able to talk to other people who do, who are doing the same thing and how they've solved problems. If there's a professional association for a job that you're in that you're ready to scale, join it because you can get instant answers. I wish when I This company that I had a book that somebody just told me, This is what you need to do. It doesn't exist and, the shortcut and this this was paramount for me. If you want the shortcut on how to scale and how to grow, join a professional association, start with the Chamber of Commerce, but better than that, start up, join a professional association that's in your line of work because you're gonna meet people that have been doing it for a far longer. I've had actually agency owners have been doing it for half the time that I've been doing it, but I figured stuff out before I did. We could figure things out on the funding side or figured things out on Like how much do you pay a salesperson? You know, and you can get 17 answers from 17 different agencies in, in 5 different states, you know, within 24 hours, just to get a base trying to see if you're if you're matched up with where your head's at.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Yeah. Well, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think those 2 things you mentioned getting outside support of these, I I would say that's what I do. Right? But I see the powerful power of of, of pushing people thinking, because when you're thinking changes, all these new possibilities open up that you can see before. And then that power of community. You know, I'm in a community of of high level cons, consultants and coaches.

It's changed the way I think about my own business. And also, I run, you know, I run a community. I run a CEO, program for leaders who are already super successful, and they're ready to change the world, create their A legacy, 100X legacy involves doing the strategic thinking, but also doing the deep inner work. Because again, for them, it's, That's a new game, right? They know how to be successful in business. Do they know how to create change beyond that? Not necessarily. And so that again is that Kind of melting pot that you mentioned where people spark off each other and in the process change really quite fast. So I love that. Yeah.

Paul Feith
And at the very least, what's wrong with a little extra outside perspective. Right? Yeah. Definitely. Well, hey, Paul. It's been great talking with you.

Richard Medcalf
If you wanna get in touch with you or, Paul Gregory Media, your your business, how do they do that?

Paul Feith
Very easy. Just visit paulgregorymedia.com. From there, you got my contact info, our location, in everything we do.

Richard Medcalf
That's simple enough. I look forward to following along on the journey and, as you as you scale and help others help Even more people in the world. So thank you for what you do.

Paul Feith
Yeah. We look forward to continue what we're doing. Thank you for, for having me on the show and, giving listeners a little, insight into what we do.

Richard Medcalf
Thanks, Paul. Thank you. Well, that's It's a wrap. If you received value from this conversation, please do leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. We deeply appreciate it. And if you'd like to check out the show notes from this episode, head to expodrent.com/podcast where you'll find all the details. Now finally, when you're in top leadership, who supports and challenges you at a deep level to help you multiply your impact? Discover more about the different ways we can support you at xquadrant.com.