S13E12: Turning values into tangible growth projects, with Kirsty Leighton (CEO, Milk & Honey PR)

Kirsty Leighton
I wanted to create an agency where everybody's voice could be heard. I wanted to create an agency where we had shared values where we could continue to learn from one another, where we could where we where I could continue to learn, where I could bring individuals in that would teach me and keep me inspired in what was new and different in the communications field, both internationally and as we kind of grow out. Welcome to the Impact Multiplier CEO podcast.

Richard Medcalf
I'm Richard Medcalf, founder of X Xquadrant. And my mission is to help the world's top CEOs and entrepreneurs shift from incremental to exponential progress and create a huge, pause impact on our world. Now that requires you to reinvent yourself and transform your business. So if you're ready to play a bigger game than ever before, I invite you to join us and become an impact multiplier, CEO. In this episode, I speak with Kirsty Leighton. Kirsty is the CEO of Milk And Honey PR. She's built a firm that has won so many awards It's won growth awards. I've been in the financial times 1000 of the top fastest growing companies in Europe. She's they've had a whole number of impact awards, hot companies to watch. You name it. They've won it. And in this conversation, We look at how she set up such a high growth, high values driven company. It's a b corporation. Valley is very clear at the heart of what she does. She wrote her values out at the very start of her entrepreneurial journey. She stuck to them, and she turns them into specific projects each year. to turn the values into reality. She also wrote a document at the start of her business, which has actually enabled her company to scale so quickly. She basically designed it for scale even when it was just one person. And we get into her heart. We understand what makes her tick. why she made a pledge to help 250 people from disadvantaged backgrounds get into a career in in communications. And how she's done that even without being able to hire them directly herself? I love Kirsty's heart, her intentionality. the way that she's built a scalable business from the start to do good and to make money. Fantastic conversation coming up with Kirsty Leighton.

Richard Medcalf
So, Kirsty, it's really a real pleasure for me to have you here today. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me. It's exciting to be on the podcast. So what I know about you is that you set up milk and honey, not that long ago, and you've grown it to be one of the financial times as fast as growing European Companies. 2 years running. And you've also been recognized as the highest scoring B Corp in the communications field. And you're also a real leader 2023 impact award winner.

Kirsty Leighton
So you're kinda stacking up these accolades at a incredible rate of knots. We do enjoy all the shiny things in love. We do enjoy the you after that. Yeah. Thank you. It's been it's been really exciting. I started the agency 6 years ago now. So 6 years ago, it was just me. We've now grown to have a team in in London, in New York, in Munich, and we just opened in Singapore.

Richard Medcalf
So that's exciting. Yeah. And that's it's amazing. So what I what I've also discovered by looking at at your story is you seem to have been very, very intentional from the start about the kind of company you wanted to build And you put some structures in place as far as I can see to really define that. So it wasn't Chase of going out and trying to find a client and then trying to find another client, then just seeing where it went. You seem to start off even in the name, in into your value. Yeah. Do you know what? Just tell me a bit about your thought process, as you got going on this business, what were some of those foundational decisions or, yeah, about building blocks? to keep it in place.

Kirsty Leighton
Well, I work in public relations, and I'm incredibly fortunate that I've worked in in PR for god 30 years now. And so the wonderful thing about building something in your forties is that you've seen You know, you've seen lots of different ways of doing things. You've seen what some of the intentions are and the unintended consequences of not quite getting the delivery right. And so I grew up in an organize in a family, sorry, where both of my parents at some stage had moved from being employed to to running their own businesses, and they worked incredibly hard at it. and were both incredibly intelligent, but they weren't very commercial. And I was always incredibly sensitive to the requirement and necessity to be commercial. And so was really for for me, what I what I focused on. So I I kind of was able to do a lot of growing up and and into senior leadership roles in other organizations before setting up milk and honey. So when I set it up, I I knew that somebody that requires and really drives energy from spending time with others. So I wanted I wanted to create an agency where everybody's voice could be heard. I wanted to create an agency where we had shared values where we could continue to learn from one another, where we could where we where I could continue to learn, where I could bring it with individuals in that would teach me and keep me inspired in what was new and different in the communications field, both internationally and as we kind of grow out. I wanted to work with senior leaders from a client perspective so that, again, we were having an impact from their business not just making a noise for their brand. And so there were some foundational values that we put in place. So bravery being one of them because it Steppy out and big, falling slightly outside of your comfort zone is is always something that is that is important. But I wanted to create a safe space about making stakes and and and be recognized to trying something different rather than being penalized for it. Energy is important. I think, you know, when you've been doing When he's been in the same career for 30 years, you need to you need to keep looking for new ways to to energize Will they? Personal, of course, is important. Respect for me is really important. That's respect for one another. how we speak to one another, how we engage, what type of what type of work we get to do, what type of clients we want to we wanted to to work with, and, of course, collaboration, making sure that we're all kind of working well together as partners. So I created a kind of a shared ownership model, which was a little tricky doing it on your own because you kind of who you're sharing that with. But I so I I kind of set up an in the first Internet an LLP thinking that was the right way to go. So it was with me as an individual and me as a company so that I can have that that kind of partnership model in preparation for going out and then and then growing with team. So I was quite purposeful from that perspective. And, also, I kind of grown up in ISO 9000 organizations as well. So, again, having that quality infrastructure in place was another kind of pivotally important element. So that was something we put in place very early as well. Yeah. So That must take quite a bit of time to do that legal stuff or get at the start. Do you know what? Not re I think think if you put your mind to things, you can get things done quite quickly. So I'm a huge believer in putting things into sprints and giving yourself a relatively short amount of time to get things done and then putting lots of efforts and energy into into then delivering on it. And so from that perspective, we've all we've always been able to move quite quite quickly. So, actually, setting up the company probably took me About a month, putting the infrastructure in place from a quality perspective, we took about another month.

Richard Medcalf
So I think if you if you focus, you can get it done. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Tell me about the quality side of things. So, again, most people as a class of solo preneur, they after they've signed their business. That shoots aren't necessarily thinking about ISO 9000 and quality infrastructure. So what what does that actually look like? And and and why was this important to get in so early.

Kirsty Leighton
Well, again, you know, I'm a bit of an extrovert. And so to that end, I know that I need other people around me. where I gain my energy from is kind of outside of myself. And so I knew that I needed to to build a team. Ideally, I want to get to a team of 10 as quickly as possible because that way around, then there's enough individuals to be able, you know, that you can take time off without things falling over, there's enough different perspectives to challenge thinking. And so so to be able to do that and then not have to undo things down the line. I knew that we needed to put a quality infrastructure in place. And so I started writing a handbook really straight away in terms of how we would you know, how we reduce our filing, what our quality systems in terms of growth and development should look like. How are we going to kind of run credit control and, you know, broke it down into all the all the different sections? And then we were And then they got that validated externally. So within the PR world, there is a quality system called CMS, which is a chartered management standard. So we got that, I think, within the 1st 6 months of being up and running, and then we got our investors and people, and then we actually then chose to go the b court route as well. And so we got that within the 1st couple of years. So let's get back to these question of values.

Richard Medcalf
So energy bravery, respect, passion, collaboration, loyalty. The they're great values. some people might say, everyone has values, like, you know, we need to be respectful and collaborative. because no one's gonna say, let's say, let's have disrespect and, you know, lack of collaboration is a value. So first of all, there's, like, I suppose well, actually, let me add something else to that. Again, if, you know, putting a cynical hat on, just for a second, for some people, like, the whole PR field, right, could be seen as, like, putting lipstick on a pig. You know? Like, you've got some, you know, nasty company out there. Right? And then they need to get some PR firm to come in and make it palatable for, you know, for consumers. Right? And so got these values, and then you got this, you know, this question of, you know, integrity. Oh, yeah. Clearly as somebody who believes in being forced for good in the world. And so I suppose, how do you kinda, like, how does standing up for these values and and and for and for being a force for good work and they have cost you something. Right? So are there moments where these things really bite, and you have to make a hard decision? Yes. Very much so. Absolutely.

Kirsty Leighton
So So me having those values in place is is critically important because it really starts to set the culture. And that has meant that from the get go, everybody that we've brought in to be part of our organization, the shares in in that kind of view of the world. However, how they demonstrate it and the behavioral infrastructure that they put around it is personal to them, and that is by age, by culture, by, you know, background, socioeconomic background, etcetera. And so their their delivery of it is slightly different. However, we do, as a business, try to make sure that we demonstrate our values. So for example, each year, we take one of the values and then look to bring it to life. So the 1st year was around energy. It's like, okay. Right. Let's get going. Let's make sure that we're all that we're on as many of the hot list and the ones to watch as possible so that we're seen as being a a disruptive force coming to market, and we can grab some attention from those. We then kind of started moving in and thinking about thinking about loyalty. So that's when we then converted to an employee ownership. trust where the business is owned by the team. So we moved legally from an LLP to a limited company and then to a to an EOT and employee ownership trust. And the the team now actually own 55% of the business, and that's all of the business. So London team owns London. It's the London team owns everything. And so that, again, having that Having those, we have separate p and l's in the different geographies, but everybody owns everything. And so it really allows collaboration to work. And, also, because I'm surrounded effectively by my bosses all the time, they ultimately can undo any decisions that they that they don't feel make sense. So, therefore, we're always making we're making decisions for the good for the good of the many, not the few. And I think having that as as structurally part of our organization really kind of changes changes the way that that we communicate with one another because there's an absolute necessity not just to to tell people what is going on, but why it's going on, get their buy in and ensure that and because quite frankly, if I can't sell it to the team, it's probably not a great idea. So So it it keeps you honest as well from that respect. Then we started looking at respects and said, okay. Well, how do we bring respect to life? And that's where I came across the B core community. which for those of your lessons that don't really know too much about that, it starts about 15 years in the US, and it looks at bringing organizations and holding them to the highest levels of ethical, social, and environmental standards. And then it's on a path to ongoing betterness to constantly be getting better. But they ask their organization effectively to rewrite their articles of association or whatever the equivalent is in in different jurisdictions. and to move from being a shareholder privacy organization to a stakeholder primacy organization. So therefore, effectively moving from being an organization that that's there purely to drive profit for their shareholders. to being an organization that is there for their workforce, for the community that they're that they're amongst for all of the ecosystem that sits around them, be that physical, social, or indeed environmental. And I just love that approach. And what particularly -- -- full about it is it really shows you what better looks like? So we were able to kind of follow a path to to really have kind of guided view of what better looks like.

Richard Medcalf
So that has been a a a wonderful part of that. And so, again, that's how we then brought respect to life. So It's not just that we're saying we're doing something. We're trying to add everything that we say. Yeah. The idea is such a great model. The idea of taking those values 1 by 1 and Ash, returning them into project, I think, is a fantastic way forward. So what I'm hearing is you've kinda got this complicate complicated for this interesting mesh. Right? You've got this kind of EOT, employee ownership trust, on one level, and then you've got the b corp structure, right, on the other. As well, you might as you got the values in in a in another dimension here. But if you just look at those kind of more of those legal frameworks effectively, how does that then actually make decision making? How does that affect decision making? because it is a governance structure. So concretely, what changes? So you've got this EOT. You said that means I have to sell it to people.

Kirsty Leighton
But, like, concretely, if you have a business decision, what would change now you would be caught with an EOT model compared with if you had a regular, you know, regular business, so to speak, right, without the It makes decision making much easier because there's there's there's a a filter. I mean, they don't give you a filter. You have to kind of, you know, device filter, but that becomes quite a quite an easy filter to be able to put in place to decide whether it's the type of work that we want to be doing. And so for us, we look at, you know, does this organization do anything to harm people or planet? Does this organization align with our values? does this organization understand what they're buying? because not everybody does with a comms perspective. And then does this organization excite us? And then within within our our our contracts now as well, we now have a a code of conduct that we have on on the back of it where where you'd hope that you wouldn't need such things, but you just kinda say, you know, you're only going to treat people as human beings and and be respectful. And and, sadly, we've had a couple of clients over the years that that haven't behaved by the way that we would like them to. And so we've We've sacked them. You fired your clients. Yeah. Yeah. And that has been enormously empowering for the team, realizing that we're walking the talk.

Richard Medcalf
We're not just saying that we're going to to be a people first organization that that looks after our team and and respects them and create a a welcoming an inclusive workplace, but should that be challenged in any way? Then we we act a little bit, and we act fast So at this point, like, what's your ideal client and, like, what's the ultimate you know, if you could really maybe maybe match it one to do everything you really wanted to do to really create the transformation for them. What is that? So what are your all about in terms of your mission? Like, you know, I get the values and the structure and everything. So now you're actually doing the work.

Kirsty Leighton
What's the impact you wanna make? I mean, it might sound a bit grandiose, but, you know, I I would like to be able to to work with organizations that that do good for the planet and do good for humanity. And there are a number of different ways of doing that. So, you know, we don't want to just work with those organized so they're getting it perfectly right because that is not going to have quite as much impact as if we're working with organizations that are looking to to contin continually get better. So, of course, we love to work with organizations in the renewable space. We love to work with organizations that are that are kind of bringing joy and happiness. Well, we love to work with organizations that are that are having a a meaningful impact in kind of human improvement, be that through health tech, be that through wellness, be it through charities or NGOs. beat out through impact investment houses that are that are making a difference there. And I'm delighted to say that, you know, perhaps because I have a very low water threshold, but I really love that we don't specialize by any particular sector, and we're able to cross fertilize wonderful ideas and and ways of working from from one industry to to another and hopefully really multiply our impact in in terms of of their client work that we're doing, and I'm delighted to say that for every client that we've worked with, for over a year, we've won award recognition of the work we've done together. so much so that in the last 6 years, you know, we've won over, I think, 120 awards So, again, we do that not just because it makes us all feel good, but, clearly, it does, but also to evidence the work that we're doing. And I encourage the team, so everyone from manager up, to go out and and judge, you know, at least annually. And so, again, we're always looking for that external inspiration. We're trying to make sure that's, like, is the work we're doing as leading as it should be? What are we seeing elsewhere from other innovators that are doing great things that we can learn and grow from and to bring that back and to make it, you know, to kind of make it relevant for for the programs and campaigns that we're putting in place. And then everyone in our organization from internal upwards to go out and speak at least once a year So, again, they can really kind of internalize our messaging, our identity, and a a true sense of them also owning this business.

Richard Medcalf
I hope you're enjoying this conversation. This is just a quick interlude to remind you that my book making time for strategy is now available. If you wanna be less busy and more successful, I highly recommend that you check it out. Why not head over to making time for strategy .com to find out the details. Now back to the conversation. Where I wanna go now is in the future because, obviously, you make lots of things happen. And so I wanna I want you to consider you have got your default future. which is gonna be great because it's going well. It's growing in walt stacking up by newborn rabbits by the sound of it. And And, yeah, I'm gonna put it to you that there is a preferred future. There's another trajectory where you would create even more impact in the world. because I get it. You have somebody who really wants to make a difference. So what might that be? What might be something which really feels edgy -- to even put out there, to even say, well, what comes to you? It's like really pushing the limit for you.

Kirsty Leighton
So as an as an organization, we have a kind of a 5 year rolling business plan. 3 years of which you've got a a, you know, a degree of of specificity within it. And part of that has been international growth. I actually went on the Goldman Sachs 10,000 small businesses program back in in 2019, and I found that really inspiring, actually. That really encouraged me to be a brave her from a from a growth perspective. And then so since then, we've really kind of stepped up our our international growth, which has been exciting. But, you know, plants do not always plants do not always work out of you in the hopes them to be. I mean, none of us really predicted COVID lasting as long as it did. None of us really saw, you know, all of the political change that we've had here in the UK that has been that is not being necessarily helpful for for business development. And then you have key individuals that move around. So, you know, it's always so we have a plan, and we try to work to it. But the way that we tend tend to approach things is is then making sure that actually, if we if we hit a hard time, if we don't perform in the way that that we want to, then we we really we really kind of grow our way out of any situation. So for example, while we're into COVID, we really double down on our training and on our marketing so that we could grow our way out, and and and we did. But to answer your question, Where do I see myself in kind of in the future? Then, really, it's I don't want anyone office to be more than forty people. because for me, that that enables our culture. And I don't ever want to get to a stage where it can be, oh, you know, we need somebody from the digital team. We need a mileage from the digital team to work on this project. I always want it to be kind of, like, imaging, you'd be amazing on this. Or Tushar come and help and and and work on on on this, this would be perfect for you and just to keep it as as human as possible. But I do envisage that we'll continue to grow and and open up new new offices, especially in the US. So at the moment, we opened in New York 2 years ago, and we're we're actively looking at other at other opportunities elsewhere around the US right now. We opened in Munich last year, and I'm not sure, really, the how much more in in Europe we might want to do. We've got some fantastic partners we work with in in there, so who knows. And then we've only just opened in in Singapore literally in the last month or so, and that's off to a player's start. But, again, we've made mistakes. The very first office we opened was actually in Sydney in in 2020. 1 of our our wonderful board directors in London was moving Sydney. We didn't want to lose her. So she went out and opened up in Sydney just it was apocalyptic at Signature. But, you know, the obviously, COVID came in and closed the country down. There was then raging fires, and then there was there was also this swarm of locusts that came in, I mean, literally was apocalyptic. And yet, we did brilliantly.

Richard Medcalf
Caroline did a fantastic job of building our business, building our team, building our client base. But then because there was no inbound talent coming in to the country because nobody was allowed in or out. Now when she went off on maternity leave, we just couldn't find anyone strong enough to to take over from her. So we had to put up as a sunpour. So you know, it's not it's not all roses, far from it. Yeah. Well, yeah, thank you for the honesty. Yeah. As you were talking about the Plague of Lucas or you are. You've got the London Milk at Honey, the play give locusts. It's all very probably biblical. We should have some more of those in there. So there's a kind of there's the there's the challenge in end, the stretch. So the challenge is, like, yeah, I wanna, like, grow this business. I wanna open up different offices and scale that way whilst keeping it very human and up leveling, yeah, the work we do with clients. And and then there's what I call the stretch, which is what's it gonna take for you to multiply your impact within that. Right? So Because we're always looking at our next level. Right? We've always got well, you know, if you wanna multiply the business, we need to kinda multiply ourselves in some way or up level how we operate what would you say is something that you're gonna need to work on as a leader if you are to perhaps fulfill these ambitions.

Kirsty Leighton
I think it's about it's it's exactly what you were just saying, Richard. I think, really, fundamentally, it's about building some fantastic leaders. that I work alongside, so and empowering them to build their own part of the business and to and to give them as much space and as and as much support as possible so that we can so that we can keep going, and we can keep growing. And, again, we can create a meaningful offer in different jurisdictions, in different geographies, and potentially even in in different languages. that's meaningful to the audiences that we want to that we want to be working with. So we started to do that. I mean, actually, within our team, we've got probably a 5th of them are at partner level. So that means that they're you know, generally, they're about kind of, like, 15 plus Some of us much more years in the in the industry. And so those are are individuals who are incredibly competent and capable. And they and they're building out their own often. So each each one of those either has a particular sector or a particular geography or a particular offering that they're responsible for and that they're growing around, which has been really exciting to to see, and and and I'm hoping that we can continue to do that. So within the structure that we've also got, so we Hyde Group that kind of sits above milk and honey in the different geographies. And that acts as an investment house, if you will, for being able to kind of invest in those in those new currently, those new geographies. But, again, when you go out and employ quite entrepreneurial versus individuals. At some stage, they may well want to build something themselves. And so by having that infrastructure, it then allows us to be able to effectively incubate other other offerings that that team members and co owners in the business may choose to do in the future. So We're kind of trying to future proof for for some of that and and think ahead. It hasn't hasn't materialized yet, but we'll see.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. I'm thinking as you multiplying and and kind of creating these different offices and different locations with different partners running them. What are the challenges that you see in maintaining the skating that model.

Kirsty Leighton
Well, it's tricky. I mean, you know, I have an amazing partner that I work with in the US Paul who runs our Paul Cohen, who runs our our US North American business. Paul and I didn't actually meet in person till we've been working together for about 18 months. we were just, you know, we're just over over Teams or Zoom. We had to be a bit brave in some of those elements realizing that that was a market that we wanted to go for realizing the type of individual that we wanted to to work with. finding that individual, but then not really having anything other than a kind of electronic, if you will, relationship. So it was it was it was interesting and fun when we when we actually got together. because the first thing you always do is like, oh, you're so much taller. It's so smaller. Like, that's the one bit that you get no sense on, is it? People's height. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Definitely. I always just make noise joke. Oh, you have a third dimension. Right? You've got knows. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So so, Casey, thank you for this discussion. I mean, whatever you take your way is, you know, you're somebody who's really it was very, very intentional, you know, and structured in the way that you've gone about building this business. Right? From day 1, even when you were just one person, you set of a structure that was gonna accommodate multiple partners and things in the past in in the future. And you, you know, you evolve that. You changed the model and on the way, Again, you put in the values when it was over you, I suspect, and that, you know, living your own values, which you already knew. But you were and, you know, you documented the processes for quality before other people were there to necessarily follow those. And by laying those foundations, sounds like you've been able to create something really quite extraordinary. So that's it's been amazing to kinda listen to to that story, and then as well as, you know, get a sense of your heart that actually you want to to make a difference. Before we leave though, let's I like to kinda go back to the origin story because I know, you know, you've written the past about about your mother, her as being an inspiration. So I kind of wonder, like, how does it her passes other parts. But what's the driving energy because you're energetic person. I'd pick up that. I'd pick that up in you. What is the driving energy that makes you do all this stuff?

Kirsty Leighton
Well, a Sadly, I don't have either of my parents anymore. They've been gone for some 18 years now. So they went far, far too young. They were only in the in the very early six days. Both of my parents were incredible fun, dynamic individuals. My father was incredibly dyslexic and left school, really, not really being able to do very much at all. And he he he once showed me his school report that that said, g, this boy will achieve Nafek in life. Anyway, my father then went on to he was in he was in the navy. He then went on to get a master's degree. Then when I did my degree, he did another degree. Then he did another masters. So he ended up with 3 masters, and then he did a PhD. So it just again, there was just that So I think he was incredibly driven. And, you know, I think as soon as somebody says he can't do something, then he would push through and and deliver an awful lot. And and so I I was very inspired by him. And, indeed, my mom as well, my mom was a brilliant nurse, and it's very helpful. I I think a mother is a nurse. But then she when we were all at school, she then kind of changed her career and became a a beautician working for herself. And she kind of did it for fun more than anything else. And she worked incredibly hard. She worked 6 days a week, and she earned absolutely nothing. And there would be, literally, she'd open the fridge sometimes and just cry. And I just remember thinking to myself, I am not going to live your life. I am not going to be like you. I am not gonna be in a situation where I can't afford to fill the fridge. That's just not gonna be that way. I could just see it eating away at bits of my parents' soul. I just thought, no. This is not I don't wanna do that. So I moved from the northeast down to London because I thought that's where the most of the opportunities would be. I went to university. I wasn't particularly academic. I think I inherited some of my dad's dyslexia, not as bad as him, I'm a little bit dyslexic myself. And I just I just kind of thought, actually, you know what? I need to create as much opportunity for myself as possible and then do something that sounds fun. And I loved the idea. I found out what public relations was all about, and I loved the idea that every day could be different. that one day you could be doing photo shoots, other days you're putting competitions together, other days you're writing strategies, other days you're presenting at at events. other days, you're kind of putting infrastructure in place for for prices. And I just thought, wow. That sounds really exciting. And so I I wrote to the top 150 PR agencies as a as a list that comes out from PRE. I wrote them all, they effectively said bugger off. So I wrote back to them saying, surely not. And from that, I then got 15 interviews and 10 job offers. And it's just and so that that showed me very early on. No doesn't mean no. It means you haven't convinced me yet. And so some of these lessons, I've then just brought into the way that I that I work and I and I operate. And I found that's that's been really helpful and helpful for me. But it but I've also been very focused on realizing it doesn't matter how hard you work. If you're not commercial, you're not gonna succeed. And so was that was an important lesson that I got from my parents that, you know, they were incredibly hard, incredibly hard. but they never seem to financially move forward, in fact, the opposite.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing that. But this thing seems to I'm gonna pushy. I think it sounds like it's missing in that because, actually, what I if I read at the service level, what I heard was I always wanna be able to fill the fridge. But I think at this point in your life, for your career, you could have there to fill the fridge.

Kirsty Leighton
I I I want I now want I want other people to be able to do that. So I I you know, I'd I want to create careers for for young people for older people for returners to work where they can get involved in an exciting career and do something and do something different. So we another thing that I I kind of pledged very early on again. I I made a pledge that I was going to help 250 people from disadvantaged backgrounds to get into a career in communications by 2025. Clearly, I'm not gonna go ahead and employ 250 people. So therefore, again, it gives me ways and a focus to be able to get so I work with breaks and finishing school. to do some mentoring there and so do a lot of our team. We have a school's outreach program where we go and communicate what what the career and communications could look and and feel like we have our interns go into universities and give talks on on on what we're doing. We have we have a an untick the box. Podcasts that's run by one of our senior execs that looks at that looks at people from diverse backgrounds coming into careers in communications and how they got involved and and what that looks and feels like. We have a number of mentoring programs that that we're that we're running. We've always had a kind of work experience program in all of our offices and internship programs in all of our office every year. I'm then pleased to say that we've had had a 100% conversion rate from our interns into full time staff members. And then I work with other industry and agency owners especially across the UK to create new jobs and opportunities, and especially from people that are perhaps neurodiverse or are reentering the market or are from less advantaged backgrounds. I also do some I do some examination work for an organization called Soci Mobile, which is about helping people from disadvantaged backgrounds continue and grow within their career. because very often, it's hard for them to get into the first instance, but then it's hard for them to perhaps believe in themselves and and keep pushing forward and going into those leadership roles. So there's lots of different things that that we do from that perspective.

Richard Medcalf
And, again, I think that I I find that personally incredibly rewarding. Yeah. And that's amazing. I felt so I've just, like, cracked open some egg or something. It is all this stuff that kinda come out. It's amazing. I'm with best exam best metaphor, but that's when it comes to mind for I release some, yeah, amazing. Or open a box on these birds. flown off and really so much energy there. Right? Which I was I'm really glad we just tapped into that because that was really really inspiring. Right? The the the you that yeah, you've moved from that initial position. No. I don't wanna be in that scarcity place of scarcity, but you've already turned that into into a multiplication, which which I love.

Kirsty Leighton
So Well, hey, Casey. It's been a real pleasure speaking with you. I love your energy. I love what you're up to in the world. I think it's just really insightful as well for other people to be thinking about, you know, how much positivity and impact are they weaving into their into the way they go about running their business. Right? And and and and have they put into place some of those structures and intentionality that UKly have. So thank you for sharing some of that wisdom with us, and look forward to following the journey. If people wanna find out and more about you about milk and honey, what do they where do they go to do that? So our website would be the best place to start, which is milkandhoneypr.com.

Richard Medcalf
Perfect. I'll put that in the show notes. And let's say I look forward to following the journey. Thanks for being with us. you, Brian. Thank you so much. It's been great chatting to you. Thank you, Richard. Thank you. Bye bye.

Kirsty Leighton
Bye.

Richard Medcalf
Well, that's a wrap. If you received value from this conversation, please do leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Redeeply appreciate And if you'd like to check out the show notes from this episode, head to expodrant.com/podcast where you'll find all the details. Now finally, when you're in top leadership, who supports and challenges you at a deep level to help you multiply your impact? discover more about the different ways we can support you at xquadrant.com.