S9E02: Creating a ‘no glass ceiling’ culture, with Ben Dorks (CEO, Ideagen)

Richard Medcalf
Hi Ben and welcome to the show.

Ben Dorks
Hi. Nice to meet you, Richard. How you doing?

Richard Medcalf
I'm doing really well, thank you. Hey, I'm looking forward to this conversation. You're the Chief Executive of Ideagen, which is a really fast growing company and I think you've got a really interesting story to perhaps to tell us about, you know, what drives you as a leader of that business? And kind of what gets you out of bed in the morning, every day to build this business? I think you said that it was you hoping to double the business right? Over the next couple of years. So, you know, for businesses already a reasonable size business, that's no mean feat, in what's a very uncertain world but we're getting ahead of ourselves. Before we jump in, what do you perhaps just explain a little bit about what is ideagen and how did you get involved in the first place? What attracted you into this business?

Ben Dorks
Yeah, thank you for that. So ideagen is a regulatory and compliance software tool used by over 8000 organizations globally, to manage everything from Quality Health Safety audits through to regulated collaboration in organizations such as KPMG, through to the Federal Aviation Authority. The company was originally admitted onto the London a market. So we're listed business all the way back in 2012, as a as a buy and build vehicle, and I came with the first acquisition. So I'd started my own business, all the way back in 2004, bootstrapped it, paid the paid the salaries on the credit card in 2009, which I remember very vividly, and, and felt and felt really lucky if I'm honest to have made the made the sort of exit and then really grew in idea and I started off as a sales and marketing director and a move through to the board and became Chief Executive in in 2018.

Richard Medcalf
Fantastic, so you came in a sales margin vector, and then you became chief executive, and always have is interesting, but you've had an interesting journey, then found into a more corporate structure, and then promoted. So first of all, what got you into this space? Obviously, you were already in the regulatory space, presumably, before with your first business, which was been acquired? You know, what kind of motivated you to get into that in the first place? Why was that important to you?

Ben Dorks
So I started, yeah, absolutely. I started off selling, and developing regulatory document management for healthcare and that really came about for me working in the healthcare market in selling other software for a period of time and understanding the risks associated with, you know, incorrect documentation being presented to clinicians, the way that particularly around pathology, which was an area that we invested heavily in about getting timely reports to the right individuals, including, you know, your local primary care GP practice, as well as understanding if you like, the trends, so one of the issues of the historical systems was that you couldn't, you're taking something very much in isolation, rather than see it in the context of maybe what had been happening over a period of time. So for me, I took a great, great pride in trying to present information that, you know, enabled them to comply with the regulatory oversight they had in the UK, the MHRA, as well as being able to really improve the productivity, productivity and the diligence of the clinicians of actually making that decision and, and then that's really evolved to where we are today, as I said, you know, with, with over 1000 customers across all types of markets.

Richard Medcalf
It's interesting, you use the word Friday, because I was gonna interrupt at some point, and then you went there, I was gonna say, like, does anybody really get excited and passionate about regulatory compliance? Right, like, you know, is that something you can really put your heart and soul behind? Or, you know, for me, it sounds a little bit like it's tedious admin. But it sounds like there isn't, you know, found that actually useful beyond that.

Ben Dorks
I would argue it's those quiet voices, those safe hands, that really protects our world. They are they are, they are very diligent. They're very much focused on on doing the right thing, because it's the right thing to do but, you know, let's be honest, nobody invites into a board. You know, the head of health and safety and it's often only it's only often when somebody thing goes wrong, they they realize they've not been investing. So, you know, we feel that our business is really to support those quiet voices and safe hands that are protecting the world and be a voice for that community because I think that that really for us is how we're, we're going to make a difference and make an impact and people realize that it's not just about box ticking, which is often what people think about when we talk about regulatory and compliance, but that it actually has a benefit and there's lots of examples, you know, that if you take the food industry, the regulations in the food industry to make sure the food that appears on your table is safe and edible, you know, not going to give you salmonella is one example of where, you know, regulation has a very positive effect.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, at this point, it's not just about box ticking, I think is a great one because it means you're having to explain a bigger, you know, the bigger meaning behind it all. So how do you how do you do that? Right? I know you in the tech driven business, ambitious goals be tight talent market. Right? So you have to you have to sell this vision a bit right to people, internally and externally, I guess. So how do you kind of help them understand that bigger picture, right, that it's not just about what you said, box ticking.

Ben Dorks
And I think you've got to look at the outcomes that can be achieved by delivering, you know, a really honest and effective regulatory and compliance system. You know, if we look in, in our aviation customers that include British Airways, and Emirates Airlines and Ryanair, and they will all focus on, you know, on safety, and the more information that they have, and the more open the policy is, and the environment around safety, the less likely planes are to crash. And, you know, that for us is what we're trying to achieve across all of our, our markets. And, you know, we include aviation, we include transport in that, but we also include life sciences, food and drink and healthcare. And so for us the similarities between each of those markets, they may be at different stage in their genesis, the similarities between those markets are very obvious. We just have to make sure that we were talking to the story about the outcomes of what you're going to achieve, not the fact that there's an extra two boxes to tick on a form, which is how often chief executives feel about it. Let's be honest.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, exactly. But as you said, it's, it's so fundamental. And actually, it is a massive risk factor for for any, any company, I was one of my clients. Yeah, I mean, they're, they're in actually not a tech client, it's one of their moving industry or global player. And for them, it's like, their health is number one. And then profit is number two, because it has such a massive, you know, any, any accidents, just destroy everything, you know, their brand, their reputation, their you know, everything right, it's just,

Ben Dorks
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, the potential impact is huge. I mean, the personal cost is significant, and the financial impact. And so, you know, we talk about the outcomes of all of those, you know, if you've, if you've got a robust system in place, then that makes a huge difference and can have a huge impact on on lives on the business and on your, on your customers. And that's what we really focus on.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. So let's talk about your personal mission as a leader, and you said, you know, you're sort of your own business, you have other entrepreneurial spirit, you know, you've obviously stayed in this business now for for many years. And what's the personal mission that you're on? Right? What drives you as a leader? You know, what's the legacy that you that you look to create, you know, if you, you know, at some point when you leave this role, or when you retire, or whatever it is, what are you going to look back on and be really proud about, you know, what's the legacy gonna be?

Ben Dorks
And I think in terms of legacy, I was I was actually born three miles away from, from where this office is, you know, my family still live here. My father's in a nursing home down the road, my mother lives literally in the next village, my three brothers or live within two or three miles of where we are, you know, we my father started the homeless charity around here. So, you know, building a business in your own backyard means a huge amount and it's, it's really significant when you can actually start to have a significant impact on the communities, the local communities around us, you know, and create significant employment opportunities. So for me, you know, the the personal legacy is about, you know, creating that sustainable organization that, you know, creates lots of growth opportunities for for for the local region, you know, and supports, and supports our communities and, you know, we have a big community program, think big, that's, you know, offering apprenticeships to 16 year olds, level two apprenticeships to 16 year olds that, you know, traditionally are not in employment, education or training. And, you know, it's a very, very visible impact to, you know, dozens of people each and every year. And that, that means that, you know, huge amounts of creating that, that sort of sustainable business that supports that, you know, when I'm not here, although, I've probably felt like, I'll be going out in a coffin if I'm honest. Because I love it that much. But, you know, I think that, that, for me, is the personal legacy. And if we can, if we can do that on a, on a global basis, not just in Nottingham, but also in our offices in Kuala lumper, and in Sydney, in in Blacksburg in the US, and replicate that on a global basis and have impact on on hundreds of lives. And I certainly retire happy.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, no, I love it. It's kind of a global dimension to it, but then it's local within that, right. It's that is then when you're in backyard, but then also there's other backyards, right, that you can also be working on. I think it's, it's nice to look at it in that way. Because it gets very specific, right, the you know, trying to, you're able to probably impact, you know, every community in the world, but you can.

Ben Dorks
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yes, yesterday, I mean, I, we sponsor Nottingham Forest, the football club through our, our Think big community program. And they're super supportive of that. And yesterday, you know, we, we went through to the next round of the FA Cup. And, you know, there there were 1010 kids there that we've taken out of school that have gone through the Think Big masterclass, you know, and as part of their reward is that they get tickets, and you know, that that's great to seeing them sat there and being infused, that they understand that, you know, great performance can give great rewards, even at that young age, and they start to see opportunity. And that's what the Think big program is, is people to see opportunity in tech and in themselves. You know, the business, the business may have more than trebled since I became CEO, but I still take far greater, far greater pride in saying that last night than I necessarily do about that just the growth of the business.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, I always say, you know, finances is the fuel if fuel the business, but you have to know what you know, where the business is going, what the impact is trying to make, actually. Everyone agrees with that, right? Some people just leave his finances or the matters, but I think actually, when when you have a purpose, that the finance can fuel, then actually, you create more of a virtuous circle, and everything improves?

Ben Dorks
I agree. Yeah, it's great. It's great to see. And I think, as you know, beyond that, it gets lots of other people engaged into what we're trying to achieve. And you know, when we did this, initially, we said, how many people want to mentor a, a sort of child who, through their, you know, within our organization, 45, people put their hand up straightaway and said, Yep, put us through the program. So we can support and help somebody in that last year of school, when they're, they're likely to fall off a cliff because they come from socially disadvantaged backgrounds and everything else. And as I said, you know, you take great pride in like that, I think that makes a real difference to the business, as well as the community.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, I think that's a great, it's a great story, I have a client of mine who works in telecoms, and one of his founding visions was really this idea of, you know, for example, installing fiber networks in disadvantaged areas and seeing if I just want to see like one underprivileged kid, you know, create a new career in gaming or something like this, right? Because he had the access to the infrastructure, and be able to lift himself up and you know, and create a new future for himself. And, you know, that has now happened, you know, very many years ago, he had this thing and now he's redeeming hubs and all these things that have been created, which is not normally in the remit of the telecoms company, but because they are that larger vision and people people rise up to it in around the ecosystem, employees and partners and customers and other things. And I think what you're talking about the mentors, you know, and actually giving them something to be proud, proud in. I think it's super differentiating. So,

Ben Dorks
Yeah, I'm we're really pleased about the impact it's having, as I said, not just not just in the communities but you You know what, wider than that within the business. And I think, as a, as a business, we're very much a business that believes in doing the right thing as it's the right thing to do. I think we were one of the first corporate Sony, in the UK to announce that we were cutting ties with Russia, we did that within a two hours of of Ukraine being invaded, and we felt it's the right thing to do, you know, we have a number of countries that we refuse to deal with, because, you know, they don't underpin the values that we hold very dear to us as an organization. And that's, that's the way that we've always just tried to run the business very much our personal belief system.

Richard Medcalf
It's a bit and tell me about how do you mobilize people around your vision, you know, clearly is an organization I think, with several 100 people in it, you're going places, you know, you want to double the business, you across multiple geographies? How do you mobilize people? How do you get them to bring their best to the game?

Ben Dorks
I think that's a great question, Richard. And, and it's one I think about actually quite a lot. Because, you know, in 2004, when there was five of us, you know, locked in a single room, when we were starting our own business, you know, mobilizing those people is, is very different, to where we are today with, with over 1050 people, okay. And I think that's something that I've really had to change in the way I manage that, that communication. I think that, for me, it's a lot about honesty, and transparency, and humility. And I've, you know, I've learned along the way, some hard lessons along the way that you've got to make sure that you, you are listening to people, I think listening is at the heart of, you know, a CEO. And so I've always, you know, after, after those times of thinking that I was the brightest and best in the room, and I think every CEO has probably gone through that stage. You know, I focus very hard on on active listening, and, you know, not talking over people speaking last, I've always find it challenging, when we repeat the same subject, I'm not somebody that needs to talk about things in circles for very long, please ask my wife that one. But I've sort of recognized that listening for the quiet voices is really important, important as the sort of loudest is rarely the most insightful. So, you know, for me, that honesty, and transparency and, and listening, I think has been really important. I think that the second part of that is, is that one of our core behaviors is drive, you know, so I set very challenging goals are very much believe in that, that culture of excellence, and high standards. And when we sort of look at our, our values, you know, our values, our ambition, their adventure, and their community. And, you know, that ambition, very much reflects the way that you know, we view the world that we, we want to we want to be the trusted name in regulatory and compliance solutions globally, we want a global community of customers and colleagues and of your family. You know, we want to have fun along the way, we want to create an environment that is constantly disrupting ourselves. And we need to do that in a safe environment. So if you're going to constantly disrupt yourselves and talk about being relentlessly dissatisfied, then we need to do it safely. And therefore we talk about, you know, there's no such thing as failure and only feedback. And, and so for me, it's, it's, you know, mobilizing people is about creating a purpose and a vision that people feel that they can they can stand behind. And then encouraging people to be curious, to develop to explore. And, you know, we talk about IQ, EQ, and CQ, and the CQ is the commercial acumen of, you know, having a learning based culture that that people feel safe in.

Richard Medcalf
Got it. Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, because I hear that you've got this, you know, you have the optimistic and and you bring a lot of that to it, but also you've got this relentless dissatisfaction you talked about and very high standards and drive and challenge and so forth. So I'm just kind of wondering how will that play out in the organization if I was going to talk to you know, somebody in the organization what would you be what how are they how are they experienced it? I'm just curious as to What would you say? You know, what do you think they would say inspires them? And what do you think what they might say, frustrates them?

Ben Dorks
I think frustrates them is sometimes change. You know, we can we like people that like adventure and part of adventure is challenging yourself in liking change, but not everybody likes change all of the time. And we need to recognize the different people are at different stages in their in their sort of change cycle. So that's something that we become very, very aware of, you know, I think sometimes change creates uncertainty. And, you know, through that, you you then get fear, and doubts. And so, you know, for us, if the negative side of all of that is that we have to, we have to make sure that we get our, you know, we we get our communication really well. Yeah, that were that we're presenting with, with clarity, because if you've got a growth vision that sort of looks a bit like that, then I think clarity becomes really, really important. And there's almost a pact of trust between us as leaders, and the rest of our colleagues to ensure that they feel safe in that. For those for those on the flip side of that, who are, you know, you know, feeling very adventurous at that particular point in time, then we create great opportunities, you know, we're an organization with with no glass ceilings. If you if you're good enough, you'll be given the opportunity. And you know, and that very much comes from myself. I mean, people often say, How did you end up as a CEO, I certainly want to left school at 16. With with not even a handful of GCSE s. And my first job was door knocking, selling pens and paper, I'm not sure that anybody believed I'd become a, as a un 30. Company, you know, employing over 1000 people. So, you know, for us, it's all about being able to create an environment where people can grow and develop. And people who are very much in that change cycle, can really explore how far they want to go and how quickly they want to go. Because, you know, an organization that is as fast as as there's always opportunity.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, thanks for sharing that, Ben. Because I think that story, your story is bound to come out in that leadership ethos, as you said, right, you are the example of no glass ceilings, and therefore, that's the organization that you're creating. You know, I always believe that there's a deeper story, the personal stories of the leaders come out in the culture, right, because it's who they are. It's, it's what they're passionate about, and what they deeply stand for. And so I guess I see that in you, right, you mentioned that several times, I can see that already that you do stand for, you know, growth, right people giving people opportunities.

Ben Dorks
Absolutely. You know, there's there's people certainly in my backgrounds that gave me opportunities at different stages, you know, you know, the first the first time I jumped from the tech the sort of paper industry into the tech industry and and then you know, finally being given the chance when the the CEO left left idea Gen to become the chairman and he straight away said we're not we're not having a search Ben's gonna get the job. And that's very humbling, you know, that that that people are prepared to, to back you to the extent that they have along the way especially with you know, when you when you see V's, you know, I've got a lot on it.

Richard Medcalf
Well, let's let's, let's move on to study time ticking away. I want to ask a few quick, quick fire questions. I always find these interesting to get guess the responses to these from different executives around the world. So what's your what's your favorite quote, right there might guide you with leadership principle that you stand with.

Ben Dorks
I so I people, it's a Maya Angelou, which is people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did. People will never forget how you made them feel. And I stick true to that principle all the time.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, I love it. How about a famous app, favorite famous app or favorite app, something on your phone? You know, that might be might not everybody be using but you find it really helpful for your own,

Ben Dorks
McKinsey. McKinsey insights. Yeah, and Outlook, obviously, you know, I'm completely addicted to but I do normally wake up and read the McKinsey insights of the day. always useful. Yeah. Different way of thinking.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, fantastic. Well, a book a book that's influenced you.

Ben Dorks
So go for it. Old school book from a long time ago. So the book that probably had the biggest impact on my life was a book called power based selling, which came out in the very early 90s. And I think I read it first in about 9596. And I realized at that point that that sales had the potential to be a profession, and a career, and that it was something that, you know, if I worked hard at and trained on, then it could have a really significant impact on my ability to grow and develop and, and that was my, that was my first business book. And I still have a copy of it. And every now and again, periodically pick it up.

Richard Medcalf
But that's the Yeah, some of the early books have an impact. I remember when I was literally a kid, I picked up my dad's book on negotiation, and it's got everything is negotiate, negotiate. And I'm reading on holiday. And I was like, you know, going into negotiating my souvenirs from the, you know, from the market stands and stuff. And it really stuck with me that book. It's amazing how those early ones sometimes change your trajectory in some ways.

Ben Dorks
They most definitely do.

Richard Medcalf
So what advice would you give your 20 year self?

Ben Dorks
By simply leaders read? And I still follow the principle of I read for five hours a week. Lots of different books, lots of different articles. And I've been committed to that for probably nearly 20 years now. But I probably got into it six or seven years too late. I might have been I might have got here a little bit earlier if I'd done it a little bit earlier, but I would definitely tell myself leaders read.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, fantastic. Well, yeah. I learned a very similar quote, I think it was a readers or leaders and leaders or readers put under Yeah, it makes a massive difference. I think when I started reading seriously. Things changed dramatically. Absolutely. And last quick question is, many of our guests on the show come from referrals. So I'm always interested in who inspires CEOs. So is there an impactful CEO that you know, who's inspired you, you know, sort of who might be great guests for a future episode.

Ben Dorks
I'm, I'm very privileged. I know quite a number of CEOs now. Jonathan satchel, actually from Learning Technology Group.

Richard Medcalf
He's been on. He's been on he has a Yeah, there you go. Yeah, very interesting. He's on I think this is scaling. Yeah, he's, uh,

Ben Dorks
That's what, that's exactly what I was gonna say. So for me, it's that Jonathan's one of the few people that have done that sort of soup to nuts journey of creating a, from a small business to a unicorn. And for me, his you know, the secret sauce is that ability for, you know, long term vision and execution. You know, he's in the times I've, you know, spoken to him. He's, he's, he's sort of thinking of the E FF while everybody else in the room still on A, B, and C. And that's a, that's a real quality to be able to see that while also having the diligence to go back in and make sure that ABC have been completed. To the right standard. So Jonathan satchel is probably the first one of many more than, that's always my,

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, no, I get it. You know, Johnson's very interesting. Yeah, very interesting. say is, yeah, we had a really good conversation about how he'd been building this business so fast with acquiring and, and growing as well. And yeah, very interesting. And finally, let's talk about your next level, because I always believe that no matter how much we've achieved, there's always the next level to go to. So where does idea Gen go from here? What's its next level going to look like?

Ben Dorks
So we want to continue to grow, you know, for a mixture of acquisitions and organically, we expect to sort of double over the next two to three years and, you know, we have aims and aspirations way beyond just doubling over the next two to three years. So you know, we have a seven year plan internally that we're, we're looking to, to achieve and that's everything from a financial and the golden KPIs to really focusing on creating a, you know, performance lead culture that is enabling, you know, forging that that global customer community, and creating a real family of colleagues and I think we're, we're certainly on track, but there's always a heck of a lot more that we can do and will do to ensure that we maintain our trajectory and deliver on their sort of aspiration.

Richard Medcalf
And finally, what will you need to do differently to multiply your own impact? What's gonna be different for you as a leader?

Ben Dorks
Yeah, I think that's that's one of the challenges you know, having come from a small company background into a corporate background and back into his full company and then where we are today. I love that mix of small is nice and corporate, I think that creates a great blend but as we continue to grow, then I need to sort of maintain my elevation. It's very easy to get dragged into the detail and if you're really going to execute on that vision, I need to maintain my elevation. I need to sort and certainly lead with, with clarity and energy. A lot of that stems a lot of how the business feels, especially in these very uncertain times stems from how you know how relentlessly optimistic the leader is, but the energy that they talk about, and the clarity in which they were able to articulate the vision and on a personal note, I always have to work on being a commentator versus an improver, which is something that sits on my whiteboard just there in the top left hand corner and, you know, it actually really helped drive improvements within the business not just commentate from afar, which is a very, very easy trait to fall into as a chief exec, and something that I personally work very hard on, to make sure that we're able to support the succession of the business in the long term as well.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah, thank you. That's great distinction. Finally, if anyone wants to get in touch with you, or you or with ideagen, what's the best way for them to do that?

Ben Dorks
I'm always available on LinkedIn, Ben Dorks and the website is ideagen.com.

Richard Medcalf
Perfect. Well, hey, Ben, it's been great to speak. So love, love your, your vision, your energy, the essence of ambition that the business has got, and showing some of these some of who you are, right and the kind of business you've been building and I say, just love the things you're up to as well. On the social side, right. It's not purely about the numbers. There's there's a mission behind it, there's creating an employee culture, which is really healthy and which is raising people up, and so on. honor you for for doing that and for being that kind of leader and also for taking the time to share some of that with us and with the audience. So, thank you.

Ben Dorks
Thank you very much, Richard for the invite. Truly, truly honored, thank you.

Richard Medcalf
Appreciate it. Bye now.