S13E30: Changing government policy to fulfil your mission, with Armand Arton (CEO, Arton Capital)

An episode of The Impact Multiplier CEO Podcast

S13E30: Changing government policy to fulfil your mission, with Armand Arton (CEO, Arton Capital)

We're continuing our season on "business as a force for good." Richard Medcalf speaks with Armand Arton, CEO of Arton Capital. Armand started as an immigrant with under $5000 and now has world-leaders on speed dial, having built one of the most respected businesses and a leader in his field of global human mobility.

In this conversation, you’ll learn:

  • What happened at age 15 that changed Armand's perspective on human mobility forever
  • How he become one of the youngest ever licensed brokers in Canada
  • How he pioneered a business at the intersection of finance and migration
  • The tactics and mindset that helped Armand get in front of ministers and change policy
  • How Armand has benefitted from working with Richard as his 1:1 coach for the last couple of years

"I grew up with a suitcase ready to go."

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Transcript

Armand Arton
My first boss was somebody who as well came from nothing. He was a teacher. He was one of the most successful financial advisers in in the bank and in the country. He had about 6 different coaches, physical coach, mental coach, family coach, business coach. And he he told him that if you wanna be the best at what you do in life, like any sportsman, you need to have your team around yourself. You know? You need to have somebody that can, pull you out of of moments down, somebody that can take care of your well-being and and health.

Richard Medcalf
Welcome to the Impact Multiplier CEO podcast. I’m Richard Metcalfe, founder of Xquadrant, and my mission is to help the world’s top CEOs and entrepreneurs shift from incremental to exponential progress and create a huge positive impact on our world. Now that requires you to reinvent yourself and transform your business. So if you’re ready to play a bigger game than ever before, I invite you to join us and become an Impact Multiplier CEO. Today, I speak with Armand Aten. Armand is a client, a friend, somebody I I admire greatly. Worked with him over the last couple of years in various capacities. But today, we go back into his origin story.

You see, Armand was born, in Bulgaria during communist times behind the Iron Curtain, struggled with the fact that his passport didn’t let him move. They could think it’s so hard to move out the country, to go anywhere. And fast forward many years, he’s built the industry leading business helping people achieve nationality residency in other countries And break their mobility shackles. In the conversation, we look at so many things. How did he end up from penniless immigrant To somebody with this hugely successful business with world leaders and policymakers and billionaires on speed dial, what was the journey that got him from a to b? What’s next for him as he looks to literally 100 x his impact in this area? And in the meantime and along the way, we talk a little bit about our own experience of working together, which has been a fun component as well, to understand his perspective, his side of that story. So enjoy this conversation with Armand Partin. Hi, Armand. Welcome to the show.

Armand Arton
Hi, Richard. Great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. You’re you’re welcome. I’m looking forward to this conversation. You and I, we’ve we’ve we’ve spoken together. We’ve worked together for several years now, And I think your story is really fascinating. I mean, if you look at the really big picture, you started, I think, as pretty much a penniless immigrant. Fatso, you correct me on that. But, basically, he started up with pretty much nothing.

And now and I’d like to say to people, you have world leaders on speed dial, And you hang out with billionaires, and you’ve built a business which is one of the premier businesses in your entire industry defining your industry. So I’d love to kinda perhaps on this episode, explore a little bit about how you got from one state of affairs to the other. So you might wanna kinda zoom back how of many years and kinda tell us the Tori, how did all this begin?

Armand Arton
Well, thank you for the kind words of describing, my current state. And, I love to remind myself and to my kids, never forget where you, where you started. Literally went back and and and some of the memory lines of my childhood last weekend in Bulgaria where I was born with, my 3 children to show them where their dad started. And as everybody in this world, nobody chose the place of birth. So, I was born in Bulgaria, in 76, which was during the communist time, and Bulgaria was part of the socialist block, from Armenian descent. So grandparents always teach me the value of, being relocated by force and, the importance of saving money in case of, The we have to run again. And they have been doing it for 2, 3 generations back from the Armenian genocide. So, I grew up with having a suitcase, ready to go, which not, not many families, do, especially in the countries where it’s peaceful and, bombs were not falling in in our head.

It was just, you know, communism. Then, my parents had the the opportunity to be actually sent as teachers, in a program to African country, to Morocco, which Bulgaria had at the time. And, that’s provided me actually with opportunity at The very early age to travel and to relocate to Morocco. But, again, thanks to my parents’ foresight, they decided to go with The car and not with the plane, allowing me to see 14 countries CEO, the west, the other side of the curtain. Now this came with a cost, of applying for 14 visas, which, my father had to spend The months, pretty much in, on, waiting lines, in embassies, providing proofs.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. These these were not online visas, I assume, right, at this time. This was a lot of At the time, no.

Armand Arton
No. No. At the time, Europe didn’t exist. Schengen didn’t exist. So 14 different countries, 14 different procedures, 14 different requirements, 14 different forms. And, I’m as a single child, I was really following my my in father’s footsteps and and, looking at what he does. And I guess that defined The very early age The notion of, you know, being judged by the passport at birds and treated at borders differently than other people who had a better European passport.

So, again, I think that the the the the why of do what I do, it’s this early age experience of crossing Europe and living in other countries, being able to adapt yourself quickly into different cultures. Again, Muslim culture, which was very different from where I was born, really uprooted my my personal development. And, the 2nd important stage was after the Berlin Wall fell down and Bulgaria was, you know, now being a democratic country, we were allowed to leave and immigrate anywhere we wanted. I had developed a passion for finance. I I saw a movie, called The city, actually, a UK series, in in the early nineties The, talk about brokers and and current exchange traders on on on the London Stock Exchange, and I decided that that’s what I wanted to be at the age of 12. And, there was no currency exchange in Bulgaria. There was no stock market. The only thing available close to that was, a secondary black market of currency exchange and exchange offices.

And there was this community of 20, 30 years old, you know, youngsters who were currency exchanging between foreigners and local businessmen at the beginning of, of the Bulgarian, you know, capitalist beginnings. So, I took my value of the tickets for Canada, which my parents decided to immigrate in 9 in in the nineties in Canada, and I risked it on The, in that exchange. I went to the age of 12 and start trading it. And, thanks The that, I was not wrapped, and and some of the people took care of me and, show me how it works and ask in a bid and different currency and how you can make money and how you can hedge. And, when I arrived in Canada at the age of 14 with pretty much nothing, think that was, 5,000, 4, $5,000 in 4 suitcases. Again, I I had this passion of of finance, so, I end up quickly, within 2 years in in the best colleges, best universities, and, and became one of the youngest brokers, financial brokers to be licensed in Canada at the age of 17. Started working at the largest thing financial institution, Nesbit Burns, bank of Montreal, later acquired them. And, I combined those 2 passions for finance and and financial markets and freedom by discovering a single product that existed and it was created by Canada, which was a social impact bond where a foreigner could invest into a specific bond and will not make money, will not make any interest because the return that he gets is the access to become a resident of Canada.

And this is where 1 plus 1 became 11 in my head. I just realized that there is so many people like me born in other countries, very successful, but limited in their mobility that they would put a large amount of investment into another country in order to facilitate their freedom of mobility. And, I did anything possible to be on that list of private public partnerships with The Canadian government, started my own firm. And as you said, the rest is history.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. So again, fast forwarding, you do this now at scale, right, for all sorts of high net worth individuals, movies and shakers around the world. But I guess it all comes back for me to that moment when you’re in that passport line or visa line on that trip to Morocco as a young boy, Probably feeling like, why am I in this different queue or doing all this extra hassle compared with these people just by the side? That must have been a A strange experience for for somebody so young.

Armand Arton
Well, is, you know, be beside the financial, you know, difference, of of, you know, coming from from all equal communist, socialist, you know, uprising and and being thrown up into, friends, Germany, Spain, Italy, you know, where, Monaco where, you know, you I saw wealth for the first time, and I didn’t understand why, you know, why we live in a society where everybody has to be equal and these guys live in, you know, whoever makes it wins it. Right? So, all that shaking of notion. But, again, that was something people could choose, and I understand it at the early age. You work hard. You’re steady. You can make it. But the passport, it’s something that, you know, you come with it. You don’t choose the place of the birth, and and that little paper, defines you of that border.

And I realized that it defines the person next to me who could be as well very successful businessmen or billionaire. He will be in the same line as me just because his passport was bad. So that notion of, 2nd class citizen that are based on, you know, absolutely, out of control circumstances, was unfair and unjust. And, I wanted to find an opportunity to change it.

Richard Medcalf
Got it. Got it. So so tell us a story then. So you said the rest is history, but let’s kinda go there. So you You saw this opportunity between finance and, immigration or or global kind of human mobility. You saw there’s a way to bring these things together. How did you go from there to building, you know, this Top tier high quality firm that’s that’s, that’s very top of it, you know, top of its industry. Yeah.

Where’d you begin? Or what were some of the at least, I’m sure there’s a lot of a big journey in that, but what are some of the key structural decisions perhaps or key things which you did that really paid off?

Armand Arton
Well, in the beginning of, of of my career, as I said, I worked for a very large financial institution and Bank of Montreal. And, while I, discovered this opportunity as a product called immigrant investor program in Canada, you know, my first idea was, like, you know, let’s bring that to the management and to the board, and and let’s have, my bank being part of it and me running this division for a large institution, Richard pretty much would have put me in being unemployed for the rest of my life. And the fact that The bank turned down the the idea because of the complexity of dealing with such a product that requires, a lot of key white CEO and compliance issue dealing with foreigners coming from what they call high risk countries because, again, let’s be honest. When people, I’m saying, are born in a bad passport countries, the definition of a bad passport is a is a passport that doesn’t allow you to travel to many countries, China, Middle East, Africa, Russia, Soviet ex Soviet Union countries. And this is, you know, categorized by the financial system and and by the west by a high risk countries. So it would have been very, very difficult for a large financial institutions to do The specific product. And, and and this is where I realized that, small is beautiful. And, The the if I would have start my own business, I would not had to, you know, convince, boards and compliance department.

I would have just done it. And, so I went out to the regulator, and, I said, I would like to have a license for broker dealer and financial institution. What do I need to do? So as I already had all the licenses and the experience, I just needed the money and the capital. So I I found financial partners who, put the money. And over the next years, I I bought them out and and repay their investment, with, with great return. And after doing this in Canada successfully, my initial moment, of reaction when Bulgaria joined Europe in twenty, 2007 was, let’s go back to Bulgaria where I was born and now teach this country that, you know, this bad passport suddenly became great passport, became a European passport. So, I went back and, I remember meeting different ambassadors and ministers and businessmen. And pretty much everybody laughed and said, you mean somebody will invest and pay money to get a Bulgarian passport? Or they was like The they they were still with The notion Bulgarians, you know, immigrating as refugees in other countries and, doing anything possible to go in the west.

So they were absolutely, not, understanding the concept of the other way around, people paying money to come in. Until I, yeah, I I I did the right presentation and and ring the right bells and, at one point, convinced that, this is the right thing to do, and the government’s passed the legislation and allowed The that in 2009 to become a program, and upgraded the program in 2013. Based on that, we started advising Hungary, Montenegro, Caribbean islands. So today, we have, 11 different countries from Canada as a g seven country to small islands and developing states, such as Antigua and Barbuda, Saint Lucia, Montenegro, Italy The we advise, and how can we make, The immigration policy more effective to attract the right amount of people, with the right and and clean source of funds into the country that will have the most economic impact. And, Yeah. That’s, that’s the journey of taking it, success in a country where, again, I experienced the immigration process myself, was convinced that, Canada is is is the most refined migration policy with different steps and points and and programs. And going back to the old continent where, migration. He’s not still refined 30 years later or, 2000 years later.

And, I think have so many other challenges that, that we can contribute to fix.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Tell me tell me more about how you you you said you said, you know, hey. I got a meeting with the minister and arranged this, you know, this This new scheme. Zimby you weren’t born with, you know, a, an address book, including all these, these high level ministers and, and The people. So just So tell me a bit about, like, how did you first break in, if you’d like, to to the really high level discussions needed to shape policy in a country?

Armand Arton
Again, very early age while I was in Canada, I, I had the the the privilege that within 2 years of arriving, as you said, with 4 suitcases and a couple of $1,000. I was in the same school as just in Trudeau, in, in College Jean The Breve, which is known for having given 5 prime ministers and, being the most exclusive private school in Canada. So the fact that the Canadian system allow for an immigrant like me, just based on marriage to be in that school, I grew up with this, wealthiest Canadian and Quebec families and politicians and just realized they’re just like me. So I think that, again, thanks to Canada’s kind of a multicultural, melting pot that doesn’t judge people on on on level of where you come from or how much money you have. I never felt discriminated or not being allowed to be in the room or not being allowed to do this job because I was an immigrant. So for me, everything was possible. And once 15 years old, yeah, person thinks everything is possible. There’s nothing that can stop him.

And and I assisted, at the age of 16 in The conference, in Montreal called The conference of Montreal The, Henry Kissinger. And that was the first, I would say, politician of international level that I met and I was passionate about, you know, going to the World Economic Forum, to the United Nation. And, so I think that this is where I developed the easiness of dealing with, heads of state and international organization, IMO, ICOW, UN with g seven and other places where I have attended in in the last 20 years by, by then just, having the the facility of of, approaching heads of states and, providing my advice that is a win win formula for these countries to help them reposition their geopolitical, economical, and migration policies at no cost for the country. So, I believe that I really have something to offer, and and nothing can really stop me from, approaching and and, expressing my, my points of view on on these people.

Richard Medcalf
Nice. Yes. So hearing the the though you you saw that these people were just people, you had some access perhaps Because of the, you know, the opportunities you got in Canada, but then it was also that self belief that you actually had something valuable that allowed you to knock at doors that perhaps other people wouldn’t.

Armand Arton
Yeah. Yeah. Again, I, I I I like the notion of, sharing Iskariq. So I I knew that I have a formal I have discovered that I would like to share with the world and a passion of, of freedom that can be realized by policy and financial instruments. And and, until now, I have focus on, you know, serving these governments and putting them together with The one percent of wealthiest people of the world who become wealthy migrants and contribute to the economies of these countries. My next passion is, to find the right formula and the right, breakthrough technology, innovation or policies that would allow me to, expand that freedom to the rest of 99% of the world. Because, I’m convinced that if I became who I became, it’s because of the freedom of movement that I had wasn’t very easy, but it was forced freedom. Still was a freedom.

For for more than 70% of the world, that freedom doesn’t exist. They are, you know, never gonna get easily access to, visas around the world based on on the passports that they hold, regardless how smart and successful they are.

Richard Medcalf
Well, let’s very fast, we can jump into the future in in just a second. Perhaps it’s a good time to kinda perhaps Weave in a little bit here about our work together because we met a few years ago. At that point, you know, you’d already built this great business, highly profitable leader in his industry, generating nice profits or whatever, I I imagine. And So I guess my question is, what was it that perhaps encouraged, you know, encouraged you to start, you know, to to kind of start working together? I know that I’ve done a little bit of work with your broader organization kinda during the COVID lockdown when they had virtual virtual retreats and things that were going on. I did a little bit of work there. That’s That’s how we kind of got to know each other. But then you we ended up working together 1 to 1. So I’m just kinda wondering if you could take your mind back to that, what perhaps you were looking for from that relationship?

Armand Arton
Yeah. Well, I, I believe, in in the power of of coaching. So from the my early career at Nesbitt Burns, my, my coach my first boss was somebody who as well, came from nothing. He was a teacher. He was one of the most successful financial advisers in in the bank and in the country. He had about 6 different coaches, physical coach, mental coach, family coach, business coach. And he he he told me that if you wanna be the best at what you do in life, like any sportsman, you need to have your team around yourself. You know? You need to have somebody that can, pull you out of The the moments down, somebody that can take care of your well-being and and health.

And, I I did pretty much, you know, all the Canadian well known coaching, programs with him, from Stephen Coffey, to, Robin Sharma and strategic coach Dan Sullivan. So, all these books and programs and individuals meeting with these people, you know, always guided me, I think, in the beginning of my career. And then at one point, you know, in the euphoria of of the success, I kind of forgot the need of support. So I I run, I would say, for about 10 years on my own until, COVID came, and I had The time to kinda slow down for self, delegate things to my team, and and realized that, I was I was kind of missing, missing the support structure, and I’ve been running alone for a long time. And, this is where, you know, life circumstances met The we met, and and I’m very happy that we had opportunity to to do so. So, you can bring back some of, this, assisting, that every entrepreneur and every businessman needs, into you know, let’s not forget where is the goal and whatever you think The glass is half empty, somebody can show you it’s glass full. All these other examples where, I think a coach can turn around the situation, uplift you, and and and continue, the journey.

Richard Medcalf
I hope you’re enjoying this conversation. This is just a quick interlude to remind you that my book, Making Time for Strategy, is now available. If you wanna be less busy and more successful, I highly recommend that you check it out. Why not head over To making time for strategy.com to find out the details. Now back to the conversation. Yeah. Thank you for I didn’t know all about that background you’d actually had with with your boss and all his coaches and everything else in Canada, so that’s, really fascinating. Let me put you on the spot a little bit.

I’m always curious because you’re in a much position better position than I am to talk about this. Like, as you had that experience of different sorts of people that you’ve worked with over the years, though, what would you say what would you say is is I don’t know whether it’s distinctive about the what I’ve What we’ve done together or about me? You know? So what what do you get from that relationship, would you say, if you were describing it to somebody else who was perhaps asking you? You know, why’d you work with Richard?

Armand Arton
Well, as you know, I do talk about Richard to my friends and and associates.

Richard Medcalf
You do. Appreciate it. Yeah.

Armand Arton
And I I do describe I do describe you as, as Impact of a of a success formula that, You, you understand, and you can break down some of the complex formal as that, a success means in everybody’s life and bring it into very measurable units, and, you know, help us achieve these milestones on a on a day by day or weekly by week and and, that your system, works, that you’re, always personal, available personal, emotionally, I would say, connected with with your coaches and, with your students or or clients. The difference with some of the other coaches I had is that, you know, they would have a group, a large group of 50 people or 20 people. So you would not have that personal, you know, relationship in time that I have with you. I’m so, again, whatever I can take that know how and expertise that you provide me. I share it with my team, being that on my corporate level or nonprofit level. And, again, I just do believe that external help is always needed in The life of any successful entrepreneur, athlete, or anybody who, has a dream to become the best The what he does. Nobody can do it alone. Yeah.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate that. I mean, what I see in you is, say, you’re somebody, perhaps we’ll get onto it in a minute, of who has, yeah, who has a really big, big vision, who whose past is, As as for all of us, actually, when we mine our Impact, when we look at our path, we find the fire. Right? We find the stories that really drive us. And I think I see about you as somebody who’s really made that a reality, right, in your phase The. And also you wanna now multiply your impact and, And go bigger Impact perhaps in in the next phase of of your of your life and business. And I think what I’ve enjoyed in our work together is that, Yeah.

Sometimes we’ve worked with The team. We’ve done team retreats together with The executive team, and we’ve seen some shifts there. Yeah. Sometimes working on strategy and, you know, and and new business models and new Deers. Yeah. And The sometimes it’s very personal as well. Right. And we kind of go deep and, and we look at mindset and we, and we look at kind of, you know, all the messy stuff that we all have, you know, somewhere under the, under the surface.

And I think, for me, that’s all made, perhaps made our relationship very rich is that we’ve been able to kind of look at all those different aspects through that lens. On that topic, why don’t we kinda look forward a little bit to yeah. You talked about reaching the other kinda 99, percent. You’ve got to build a business that’s, you know, incredibly successful in helping that top 1%, and you wanna Scale forward. Without going into kind of all the details about how that’s gonna look like, the question personal question I want to look at is for you, What do you think we all need to bring out of yourself to create this This new thing, you know, to reach the 99%, how will Armand Arsen need to change?

Armand Arton
You need sometimes to be reminded of the fire at the beginning and as well as, reminded that you can still to do it. Even though I I know very well, and, again, I remind myself where where I started, where I was born, and where I am today. At one point, I’m thinking, okay, but the next level is something really hard. Right? And I think people don’t realize that it’s much harder The first part than the 2nd part. Right? The the first million, the first success is actually the hardest. And once you have this trajectory. This this, track record, actually, you know, from 1 to 50 to 100 and to a 1000000000, it’s it’s kind of easier than from 0 to 1,000,000. Right? And, I think that I, I need to remind myself that I’m still that kid, the 15 years old, that’s could believe that can change the world and can do anything he wants and can speak to anybody he wants.

And sometimes We’re the victim of our own success. We kind of limit ourselves with contemplancy and with okay. Maybe that is enough or, oh, you know, that that level is maybe a little bit too much and too far stretch. And, you know, with, with the age and with the success, we become less risk takers than we were at the beginning. So, I would like to, go back to, you know, the same level of confidence and nothing to lose. 30 years ago, I had, and and worked the same, with the same passion and, fearless, risk taking decisions going forward for the next 30 years.

Richard Medcalf
Mhmm. Well, actually, that’s that’s why I love working with you because you do have some of that. I mean, we can always probably bring out more of it, but I have a distinction between conventional success That’s an exponential success. Right? Conventional success means you get to the top of the mountain and you kind of raise the trophy over your head and you say, hey, I’ve made it. You know, I’ve got the House, the car, the whatever it is. And now I’m playing defense trying to keep it all. Whereas The exponential success is I found a mission that I’m so excited about. I’m actually prepared to almost risk what I’ve currently done To create this thing that’s 10 times bigger.

I think that is in small multiplying your Impact. And it’s always, it can be a bit messy, but When we kinda leave the fear and defensiveness behind, that’s the game that we get to play. And and I see you starting to play that game.

Armand Arton
Absolutely. I I, you said it well. It’s, that comfort zone, that, of of sweet success at the beginning. It could be the most dangerous place of, many entrepreneurs where, The, don’t have the courage, or to get out of it and and jump into the next opportunity.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. It’s like the local maximum, right, in in math or whatever it is. You know, you’re on a curve and it feels like you got to the top. And, you know, a lot of people, right, when they sell their companies, they go into depression. Right? Because they’re like, what am I gonna do next? Or The people, they get the top, but then they feel they really need to move it. They they usually lose the spark. The they got them there because now Feels precarious. It feels they The to hold onto this.

And it’s, it’s really interesting, dynamic. I see a play One one area perhaps we could talk about, Ahmad, is is also I know you, you know, you’ve been a member of our you are a member of of us, my CEO program, Rivendell, Which I like to describe these days as like a mix between a deep coaching experience, a CEO peer group, entrepreneur peer group, and also a kind of a strategic incubator as we’ve been together kind of interesting, leaders and go on retreats together and do this kind of thing. So again, I’m just kinda wondering, how that’s fed into your journey. I know, you know, you’ve been you’re in other CEO groups and and things as well, YPO and and other groups. So wondering what your experience has been at Rivendell.

Armand Arton
Yeah. Rivendell was, my first great experience as well with the rest of, you know, the group that your coaching, because it provides similar to what a forum of the YPO, does. It’s a very secure, safe environment where in a couple of days, you can share and exchange in a non judgmental way, advice with your peers. So it is always great to, you know, have, a coach like you, but it’s also great to, share with peers that they’re, you know, at the same level in different industry, had different experiences. Some of their know how and and their history in business that can advise you in what to do specifically in in that case, some things that I did with the The rest of, the The participants. And, so it is a personal smaller group, open to share their experiences in, as I said, not, not teaching you, but really, sharing, in, in a in the right format, how they can help you in in whatever situation, personal, or business, you are in. So, I think, the problem of that is scaling it and challenging it for you to be able to service in the same way and provide that frame of opportunity to, as many people as you can.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. It’s, I think what I’ve really tried to do with Rivendell is is create, an intimacy with that group, which I think we’ve done very I think I’m proud of what I’ve done in that in that respect because I think even when people join the group, they get very deep, very quickly with each other, which I think is is one of the distinctive things about that group. And I think the other thing is is the fact that, there’s the peer group dynamic, but The there’s also this kind of quite heavily curated thing that I try to bring to kind of make it a journey for people, in a way that perhaps some of the other groups don’t, at least that’s been my experience. But yeah. So but you you’re in these 2 groups. You you’ve got YPO and you’ve got Rivendell. So, yeah, what would you kind of like, if you’re explaining people what the difference was, how would you describe that?

Armand Arton
Well, YPO is a 34,000 member group. Right? It’s, actually, the the leadership of YPO is in Berlin, this week. And and, I’m just seeing how, a great idea 50 years ago has now become, such a large group that it’s kind of impossible to manage and to grow. And, a lot of time and money is lost on just, organizational staff that they’re not helping us. Right? Well, with, with with a smaller group, and more intimate, Yohan. You can able actually to take out much more and to give much more, in a smaller group in much, closer formats than, you know, the the organization that requires now time and money and resources, leadership, event organizations, things that are needed if you want to have a 30,000 members around the world experiencing the same thing. You care about 4 people or 10 people. And I think that, this is on the one side, this is the beauty, but that’s also the challenge for you in in in scaling it up without losing that touch.

Richard Medcalf
Yeah. Without losing. Yeah. And that’s just a great point. And in fact, For me, Rivendell is that a key part of my own mission, right, to help the world the world’s top leaders modify their impact to make a huge positive difference in the world. And I I see that group becoming more and more The kind of exponential incubator, for for those for leaders like you, Armand, who, you know, you’ve done the 1%. You’re now doing the rest of the 99. It’s a 100 x scaling.

Right? And that’s the kind of journey. It’s why it’s it’s so fun working with you because, yeah, you are serious about that. You are serious about, tapping into that fire of your, of your past to create a different future in the world. Obviously The financially that’s gonna be hopefully great for you. And also, you know, the impact you make on other people is gonna be a whole The level as well. So it’s really exciting to see, to see The. Well, Pat, that’s a great place to kinda wrap up. I’m just thinking of a great question to kind of perhaps lead you with to to lead you with.

Yeah. I mean, how about this? If you were yeah. If you’re at the end of your life, looking back, How would you wanted to yeah. What would you what would you love your legacy to be? Like, how would you like to kind of describe that or have it on your, You know, on your tombstone or on your victory. What what what would the ultimate professional legacy be?

Armand Arton
Yeah. There and there’s a lot of exercises in in the former coaches where you have to actually visualize, your, your, arbitrary and and and ceremony and what you would like people to say, and how you wanna be remembered. So, have done this, but been a Yeah.

Richard Medcalf
I’m thinking you’re on the spot right now, which is a bit harsh. I think Clayton was coming. So it’s it’s not it’s not too much?

Armand Arton
No. No. No. I I actually as I said, I have done it. It just it’s been very long time. So I guess The maybe in the last few years. My, my, my, last things I wanna be remembered might have changed. But, I think The, impacting people’s lives and and by rebranding what it means to be a migrant into a positive mindset is, is something that I would like to be remembered.

While we live in a society today, well, it’s a it’s a dirty word, and it’s, you know, politically charged, and it is economically negative. If I can find a way in the next, short span of the rest of my life to change data, contribute to changing it into, a positive formal of our society.

Richard Medcalf
Beautiful. Well, thanks, Alman. It’s been a pleasure talking once again, and, speak to you soon. Bye bye. Well, that’s a wrap. If you received value from this conversation, please do leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. We deeply appreciate it. And if you’d like to check out the show notes from this episode, head to expodrint.com/podcast Podcast you’ll find all the details.

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